1
00:00:05,210 --> 00:00:02,990
hello and welcome to the show I'm Martin

2
00:00:07,670 --> 00:00:05,220
Willis your host and we have a great one

3
00:00:10,549 --> 00:00:07,680
tonight we have an Kevin Randle is going

4
00:00:13,910 --> 00:00:10,559
to be on the show repeat guests always

5
00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:13,920
great to talk to Kevin and just before I

6
00:00:21,470 --> 00:00:16,890
forget next week we have Chris Cogswell

7
00:00:25,310 --> 00:00:21,480
on the following Saturday probably after

8
00:00:28,509 --> 00:00:25,320
that which is a 28th I will be live at

9
00:00:32,030 --> 00:00:28,519
the cherry hill of the annual MUFON

10
00:00:34,370 --> 00:00:32,040
symposium and that's that show is going

11
00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:34,380
to be only on YouTube and it's only

12
00:00:40,100 --> 00:00:36,450
going to be four also for supporters of

13
00:00:42,110 --> 00:00:40,110
the show to be able to listen to that as

14
00:00:46,610 --> 00:00:42,120
an audio podcast that'll be posted

15
00:00:48,470 --> 00:00:46,620
sometime as a bonus show for that so if

16
00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:48,480
you want to know when that's playing

17
00:00:53,750 --> 00:00:50,370
live the best thing you can do is

18
00:00:57,470 --> 00:00:53,760
actually check in on my website on say

19
00:01:01,939 --> 00:00:57,480
Friday night of the 27th I'll talk about

20
00:01:03,319 --> 00:01:01,949
this again next week and so I want to

21
00:01:05,420 --> 00:01:03,329
thank it one that supports the show

22
00:01:09,530 --> 00:01:05,430
anyone can do that that informations on

23
00:01:11,899 --> 00:01:09,540
podcast UFO calm also over there we have

24
00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:11,909
a UFO sightings page there's some

25
00:01:15,170 --> 00:01:13,650
interesting sightings on there if you

26
00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:15,180
want to post it a sighting you can

27
00:01:20,749 --> 00:01:17,490
remain anonymous as well there's a

28
00:01:23,710 --> 00:01:20,759
there's a forum for that also there and

29
00:01:28,580 --> 00:01:23,720
we'd love to hear about your sighting

30
00:01:31,580 --> 00:01:28,590
and I have a special person on the show

31
00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:31,590
right now because he's special because

32
00:01:39,140 --> 00:01:34,250
it's his birthday

33
00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:39,150
alejandro happy birthday to you man

34
00:01:44,030 --> 00:01:42,570
my birthday's not today oh you got the

35
00:01:44,960 --> 00:01:44,040
wrong information I got the wrong

36
00:01:47,359 --> 00:01:44,970
alejandro

37
00:01:50,660 --> 00:01:47,369
no I know it's your birthday you can't

38
00:01:53,660 --> 00:01:50,670
hide you can't yeah you're right it's my

39
00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:53,670
birthday yeah yes it is so and yours was

40
00:01:58,100 --> 00:01:56,610
was recent right I missed yours yeah ten

41
00:02:01,700 --> 00:01:58,110
days ago or something like that yeah

42
00:02:04,010 --> 00:02:01,710
yeah yeah so maybe you can sing happy

43
00:02:07,399 --> 00:02:04,020
birthday to me and then I'll sing it to

44
00:02:08,930 --> 00:02:07,409
you at the same time that would be some

45
00:02:11,229 --> 00:02:08,940
great radio just gonna lose a lot of

46
00:02:13,910 --> 00:02:11,239
listeners you you realize that right

47
00:02:17,030 --> 00:02:13,920
but happy birthday

48
00:02:20,330 --> 00:02:17,040
right back at you pigs thanks yeah which

49
00:02:23,660 --> 00:02:20,340
day is yours the seventh Oh see my mom's

50
00:02:26,030 --> 00:02:23,670
is on the ninth I love being a July baby

51
00:02:27,170 --> 00:02:26,040
it's a great month especially in New

52
00:02:30,110 --> 00:02:27,180
England the summers are just so

53
00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:30,120
wonderful here you know the best time of

54
00:02:35,150 --> 00:02:32,250
year and and people are still

55
00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:35,160
high-spirited from the jollof July 4th

56
00:02:39,020 --> 00:02:37,170
you know celebration and you know you

57
00:02:41,420 --> 00:02:39,030
still have fireworks going off here and

58
00:02:43,130 --> 00:02:41,430
there and you know whether it's perfect

59
00:02:46,220 --> 00:02:43,140
usually mosquitoes are kind of lightened

60
00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:46,230
up a little bit all that stuff well you

61
00:02:53,059 --> 00:02:49,050
know why I missed your birthday you were

62
00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:53,069
oh you weren't here last week also so

63
00:02:59,150 --> 00:02:55,290
yeah everyone missed you last week I got

64
00:03:01,280 --> 00:02:59,160
some messages about how people Kirstin

65
00:03:02,140 --> 00:03:01,290
me out yeah so what were you going to

66
00:03:04,759 --> 00:03:02,150
say

67
00:03:07,100 --> 00:03:04,769
Roswell that's right hey before we talk

68
00:03:10,460 --> 00:03:07,110
about anything I have a I have a very

69
00:03:12,289 --> 00:03:10,470
interesting question that someone sent

70
00:03:16,130 --> 00:03:12,299
me I think just an honest simple

71
00:03:18,229 --> 00:03:16,140
question and an email and I wanted to

72
00:03:21,650 --> 00:03:18,239
take it run it by you and get your

73
00:03:24,199 --> 00:03:21,660
feedback on it and that's hang on let me

74
00:03:26,030 --> 00:03:24,209
just pull up the email it's oh I think I

75
00:03:28,340 --> 00:03:26,040
know what this question is oh you do

76
00:03:31,460 --> 00:03:28,350
already mm-hmm

77
00:03:36,460 --> 00:03:31,470
yeah I've gained some psychic abilities

78
00:03:44,479 --> 00:03:41,390
all right so wait let me guess let me

79
00:03:47,449 --> 00:03:44,489
can I go ahead guess oh crap get my

80
00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:47,459
camera is this from nighttime podcast

81
00:03:56,509 --> 00:03:53,370
yeah that's right yeah okay so why

82
00:03:58,250 --> 00:03:56,519
should we be interested in why should

83
00:04:00,979 --> 00:03:58,260
you care about UFOs

84
00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:00,989
that's the question then you want me to

85
00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:03,690
answer yeah what white why bother why

86
00:04:11,660 --> 00:04:07,530
why is it something I think the the

87
00:04:14,270 --> 00:04:11,670
answer to me is because it it's an

88
00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:14,280
unsolved mystery that we have certainly

89
00:04:20,659 --> 00:04:17,930
many things that are unidentified are

90
00:04:24,230 --> 00:04:20,669
eventually identified certainly a large

91
00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:24,240
amount of what's unidentified objects

92
00:04:27,860 --> 00:04:27,090
that are mundane you know top-secret

93
00:04:30,439 --> 00:04:27,870
stuff

94
00:04:32,659 --> 00:04:30,449
other boring you know cosmic sort of

95
00:04:34,670 --> 00:04:32,669
things although for astronomers and

96
00:04:37,670 --> 00:04:34,680
stuff of course the cosmic phenomena are

97
00:04:42,020 --> 00:04:37,680
very exciting but there's a percentage

98
00:04:45,379 --> 00:04:42,030
of these at a very amazing situations

99
00:04:47,900 --> 00:04:45,389
very extraordinary accounts from very

100
00:04:51,439 --> 00:04:47,910
credible people as you know even the Air

101
00:04:53,570 --> 00:04:51,449
Force said decades ago that we can't

102
00:04:55,580 --> 00:04:53,580
resolve you know I think these cases

103
00:04:57,650 --> 00:04:55,590
like the Nimitz case that the Pentagon

104
00:05:01,670 --> 00:04:57,660
has come out and said is so interesting

105
00:05:05,210 --> 00:05:01,680
are very interesting and and they pose a

106
00:05:06,710 --> 00:05:05,220
potential I'm not gonna say threat of

107
00:05:08,840 --> 00:05:06,720
course for the military they're looking

108
00:05:11,210 --> 00:05:08,850
at potential set of threats but they

109
00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:11,220
pose a potential the will discovery

110
00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:14,450
science that things we can discover and

111
00:05:22,730 --> 00:05:17,490
it's entirely possible I think more and

112
00:05:25,190 --> 00:05:22,740
more now that life elsewhere is seems to

113
00:05:27,010 --> 00:05:25,200
be on the cusp that we'll be discovering

114
00:05:29,930 --> 00:05:27,020
you know even a microbe or something

115
00:05:31,370 --> 00:05:29,940
elsewhere that it's more more likely

116
00:05:33,500 --> 00:05:31,380
there are other intelligent

117
00:05:35,570 --> 00:05:33,510
civilizations out there and if there's a

118
00:05:37,070 --> 00:05:35,580
possibility you know that they're here

119
00:05:39,500 --> 00:05:37,080
or they're sending probes or something

120
00:05:41,930 --> 00:05:39,510
like that I think that that's also

121
00:05:45,140 --> 00:05:41,940
something we need to keep open to and

122
00:05:49,339 --> 00:05:45,150
very interesting so it's it's an area of

123
00:05:52,250 --> 00:05:49,349
study that the doors haven't shut so

124
00:05:54,650 --> 00:05:52,260
just for that alone you know that's what

125
00:05:58,279 --> 00:05:54,660
exploration and science is all about is

126
00:06:00,740 --> 00:05:58,289
researching mysteries and and you're in

127
00:06:03,110 --> 00:06:00,750
phenomena that we can explain to look

128
00:06:06,950 --> 00:06:03,120
for answers I think that is an excellent

129
00:06:11,990 --> 00:06:06,960
answer and I I agree with with all of

130
00:06:17,270 --> 00:06:12,000
that and you know basically if you if

131
00:06:19,730 --> 00:06:17,280
it's possible that UFOs or a UFO or even

132
00:06:23,570 --> 00:06:19,740
you know just even a single UFO could be

133
00:06:26,029 --> 00:06:23,580
a visitor from another say another

134
00:06:28,219 --> 00:06:26,039
planet another whatever wherever they're

135
00:06:31,700 --> 00:06:28,229
from you know that would be one of the

136
00:06:33,409 --> 00:06:31,710
the biggest discoveries of all time so I

137
00:06:35,990 --> 00:06:33,419
think you know I think it's really

138
00:06:39,050 --> 00:06:36,000
important that it's a question looked

139
00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:39,060
into and it may be you know a shark

140
00:06:41,670 --> 00:06:41,010
valet has said you know maybe something

141
00:06:43,620 --> 00:06:41,680
entirely

142
00:06:45,840 --> 00:06:43,630
different you know that we have no idea

143
00:06:48,840 --> 00:06:45,850
I've never even thought of before but

144
00:06:53,189 --> 00:06:48,850
whatever it is it's still fascinating

145
00:06:55,550 --> 00:06:53,199
because of the lack of answers basically

146
00:07:00,180 --> 00:06:55,560
of what what they are it's also

147
00:07:02,100 --> 00:07:00,190
fascinating and and I guess how do I say

148
00:07:04,830 --> 00:07:02,110
this you know it's hard to say anything

149
00:07:07,740 --> 00:07:04,840
without upsetting people but that you

150
00:07:09,870 --> 00:07:07,750
know there's also the social aspect the

151
00:07:13,860 --> 00:07:09,880
which i think is fascinating how we

152
00:07:17,430 --> 00:07:13,870
react to the idea of ETS or

153
00:07:19,170 --> 00:07:17,440
extraterrestrials and one of my well one

154
00:07:20,790 --> 00:07:19,180
of my talks is about religion and that's

155
00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:20,800
that's a major thing it's how does a

156
00:07:25,650 --> 00:07:23,770
religion change how do we react to that

157
00:07:27,740 --> 00:07:25,660
what future religions are getting

158
00:07:30,659 --> 00:07:27,750
created because of this idea of

159
00:07:32,279 --> 00:07:30,669
extraterrestrials but also you know

160
00:07:35,129 --> 00:07:32,289
recently in roswell i did a talk on

161
00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:35,139
spielberg so like you know how it

162
00:07:40,589 --> 00:07:36,970
influenced entertainment which i think

163
00:07:45,629 --> 00:07:40,599
is fascinating and then also just how we

164
00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:45,639
digest and create our worldviews and i

165
00:07:53,129 --> 00:07:49,090
think that you know being in this field

166
00:07:56,460 --> 00:07:53,139
and seeing what people believe why gave

167
00:07:59,850 --> 00:07:56,470
us a little bit of insight more a

168
00:08:04,320 --> 00:07:59,860
preview to the current world situation

169
00:08:06,659 --> 00:08:04,330
at least in the United States and and so

170
00:08:08,610 --> 00:08:06,669
yeah it's it's just microcosm and it

171
00:08:11,550 --> 00:08:08,620
brings up you know even important social

172
00:08:14,670 --> 00:08:11,560
issues in and just how we think and

173
00:08:16,980 --> 00:08:14,680
operate us as a species or a community I

174
00:08:18,570 --> 00:08:16,990
think the Catholic religion you know the

175
00:08:20,879 --> 00:08:18,580
some from some of the things that Pope

176
00:08:24,270 --> 00:08:20,889
has said they're they're kind of geared

177
00:08:26,310 --> 00:08:24,280
to let it happen you know the discovery

178
00:08:28,770 --> 00:08:26,320
of it happened yeah I have a whole

179
00:08:30,450 --> 00:08:28,780
lecture about it but it's exciting and

180
00:08:33,719 --> 00:08:30,460
the reason that they speak so much about

181
00:08:37,019 --> 00:08:33,729
it is because SETI scientists paul

182
00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:37,029
davids especially one of the SETI

183
00:08:41,159 --> 00:08:39,490
scientists but others kind of go after

184
00:08:46,139 --> 00:08:41,169
the Catholic religion because they say

185
00:08:48,180 --> 00:08:46,149
their their theology does not accept you

186
00:08:51,180 --> 00:08:48,190
know people from other worlds and it's

187
00:08:52,650 --> 00:08:51,190
true that you know they've the Jesuits

188
00:08:55,170 --> 00:08:52,660
who are in charge of kind of the

189
00:08:58,079 --> 00:08:55,180
philosophy and everything have

190
00:09:00,150 --> 00:08:58,089
tackled the issue to try to make it fit

191
00:09:02,820 --> 00:09:00,160
but they all kind of generally feel

192
00:09:04,950 --> 00:09:02,830
wealth God made things here he can make

193
00:09:07,710 --> 00:09:04,960
things elsewhere and so these little

194
00:09:10,500 --> 00:09:07,720
tenants and different things that you

195
00:09:12,449 --> 00:09:10,510
know that kind of come at odds with with

196
00:09:15,210 --> 00:09:12,459
the possibility they've they've attacked

197
00:09:17,340 --> 00:09:15,220
but so it's been kind of a defensive

198
00:09:20,250 --> 00:09:17,350
posture but they've taken a very

199
00:09:22,650 --> 00:09:20,260
proactive approach and saying that hey

200
00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:22,660
we are gonna adopt the science we're

201
00:09:27,990 --> 00:09:25,330
gonna try to understand all of this and

202
00:09:30,420 --> 00:09:28,000
we are going to understand how it works

203
00:09:32,670 --> 00:09:30,430
in our worldview and and they've done

204
00:09:35,790 --> 00:09:32,680
that I think pretty successfully so

205
00:09:40,980 --> 00:09:35,800
that's why they've in particular been so

206
00:09:42,780 --> 00:09:40,990
vocal about even you know the book by

207
00:09:44,970 --> 00:09:42,790
one of the Jesuit priests in charge of

208
00:09:49,199 --> 00:09:44,980
the astronomy for the for the Vatican

209
00:09:51,650 --> 00:09:49,209
about the book of baptizing and ET and

210
00:09:54,389 --> 00:09:51,660
there's been other papers out by them

211
00:09:56,070 --> 00:09:54,399
yeah I think you know the the Catholic

212
00:09:58,320 --> 00:09:56,080
Church has been wrong when it comes to

213
00:10:00,930 --> 00:09:58,330
science and have paid the price you know

214
00:10:02,579 --> 00:10:00,940
for instance you know the earth being

215
00:10:05,190 --> 00:10:02,589
the center of the universe and the Sun

216
00:10:08,340 --> 00:10:05,200
going around it and you know things had

217
00:10:10,620 --> 00:10:08,350
to change and you know there was a lot

218
00:10:13,740 --> 00:10:10,630
of mistakes made because of them

219
00:10:16,530 --> 00:10:13,750
standing by their beliefs and thoughts

220
00:10:19,079 --> 00:10:16,540
and so I think it's they're coming like

221
00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:19,089
you say coming of age and realizing you

222
00:10:24,690 --> 00:10:21,010
know perhaps not to keep doing it that

223
00:10:26,610 --> 00:10:24,700
close minded thinking mm-hmm yeah we

224
00:10:28,170 --> 00:10:26,620
could talk like a whole show about this

225
00:10:32,150 --> 00:10:28,180
but oh yeah

226
00:10:36,449 --> 00:10:32,160
but the anything new in the UFO world

227
00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:36,459
well I guess or you want to talk about

228
00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:39,970
Roswell it's new yeah with Roswell one

229
00:10:44,699 --> 00:10:42,370
thing first of all your guests tonight

230
00:10:46,260 --> 00:10:44,709
Kevin always miss him being out there

231
00:10:48,090 --> 00:10:46,270
because I think he's an important voice

232
00:10:50,699 --> 00:10:48,100
when it comes to Roswell research one of

233
00:10:52,380 --> 00:10:50,709
the most important and I think you know

234
00:10:55,230 --> 00:10:52,390
his recent book about Roswell in the

235
00:10:57,750 --> 00:10:55,240
20th century gives a lot of for people

236
00:11:01,199 --> 00:10:57,760
to think about that people need to think

237
00:11:02,730 --> 00:11:01,209
about when it comes to this case so he

238
00:11:04,079 --> 00:11:02,740
was missed but hopefully he'll be there

239
00:11:05,130 --> 00:11:04,089
again in the future of course he's been

240
00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:05,140
there in the past

241
00:11:09,010 --> 00:11:07,810
but you know who will greatly be greatly

242
00:11:12,490 --> 00:11:09,020
greatly greatly

243
00:11:15,790 --> 00:11:12,500
here coming Roswell let me guess women

244
00:11:20,020 --> 00:11:15,800
I'm psychic I'm psychic oh okay

245
00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:20,030
initials SF that's right got it

246
00:11:29,290 --> 00:11:23,330
Wow amazing you're amazing

247
00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:29,300
so yes mr. Stanton Friedman SF and that

248
00:11:32,740 --> 00:11:31,250
I think that's big news and that you

249
00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:32,750
know I just posted a video interview

250
00:11:42,490 --> 00:11:36,970
today that I did with him thanks to

251
00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:42,500
these guys here this ondrea's whole and

252
00:11:48,850 --> 00:11:45,890
Vader video there's his business card

253
00:11:50,050 --> 00:11:48,860
cool guy who was there to do some

254
00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:50,060
filming we've worked with him in the

255
00:11:54,700 --> 00:11:52,730
past but so we filmed an interview with

256
00:11:56,980 --> 00:11:54,710
sin and I'm surprised there weren't more

257
00:11:59,530 --> 00:11:56,990
because this is it Stanton is retiring

258
00:12:01,360 --> 00:11:59,540
this year and he will not be going back

259
00:12:06,510 --> 00:12:01,370
to Roswell again he said that was his

260
00:12:09,610 --> 00:12:06,520
last annual Roswell pilgrimage and so

261
00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:09,620
it's kind of a sad moment it's a it's a

262
00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:12,050
change it's an end of an era you know

263
00:12:16,690 --> 00:12:14,330
for those of us in the UFO field and in

264
00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:16,700
fact this is a something great to talk

265
00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:18,770
to Kevin about I'm really interested to

266
00:12:23,530 --> 00:12:21,530
hear what he would say because I think

267
00:12:25,180 --> 00:12:23,540
you know what his perspectives are in

268
00:12:26,770 --> 00:12:25,190
that Stanton is kind of the guy who

269
00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:26,780
brought this whole situation to

270
00:12:33,070 --> 00:12:30,650
everyone's attention and and when I was

271
00:12:37,810 --> 00:12:33,080
first got into this field for many years

272
00:12:40,870 --> 00:12:37,820
he was the guy he was the capital t-h-e

273
00:12:42,820 --> 00:12:40,880
face of ufology you know all of these

274
00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:42,830
people who you see on TV shows now Nick

275
00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:47,770
Pope Giorgio tsoukalos Richard Dolan

276
00:12:53,410 --> 00:12:50,090
Mark Dantonio or some of our other

277
00:12:56,020 --> 00:12:53,420
friends David Hatcher Childress that

278
00:12:58,390 --> 00:12:56,030
Stanton was there before that you know

279
00:13:00,520 --> 00:12:58,400
he was the guy on all the shows talking

280
00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:00,530
about the science and credibility when

281
00:13:05,830 --> 00:13:02,930
it came to UFOs and now to see him

282
00:13:07,510 --> 00:13:05,840
retiring it's an end of an era and and I

283
00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:07,520
was very honored to be there with him

284
00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:09,770
and to get that interview so I think

285
00:13:16,750 --> 00:13:12,650
that's pretty big UFO news and what

286
00:13:18,100 --> 00:13:16,760
about the mayor oh yeah yeah well and

287
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:18,110
and we talked about this in the

288
00:13:26,670 --> 00:13:21,850
interview the mayor declared July 6th

289
00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:26,680
the Stanton Friedman day in Roswell so

290
00:13:34,170 --> 00:13:30,370
that's really cool but he's had another

291
00:13:37,260 --> 00:13:34,180
day declared Stanton Friedman day back

292
00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:37,270
in his hometown in Canada I think it's

293
00:13:41,630 --> 00:13:39,250
New Brunswick you'll have to watch the

294
00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:41,640
interview we've got it on the open mind

295
00:13:46,860 --> 00:13:44,890
production YouTube page people can watch

296
00:13:48,210 --> 00:13:46,870
it there and if you hurt my podcast you

297
00:13:51,330 --> 00:13:48,220
actually heard the audio from that

298
00:13:52,530 --> 00:13:51,340
interview but if I did listen to the

299
00:13:55,590 --> 00:13:52,540
podcast was really good

300
00:13:57,750 --> 00:13:55,600
yeah yeah so so yeah this is a second

301
00:14:00,060 --> 00:13:57,760
you know santen Friedman day that's been

302
00:14:03,560 --> 00:14:00,070
declared for him so one day it'll

303
00:14:07,380 --> 00:14:03,570
probably be official national day but

304
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:07,390
we're now a couple towns in one in

305
00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:11,050
Canada and one in and Roswell New Mexico

306
00:14:15,870 --> 00:14:13,330
so it already is a bit international

307
00:14:19,710 --> 00:14:15,880
yeah right right well we ran a little

308
00:14:21,450 --> 00:14:19,720
bit long okay so we'll catch you up next

309
00:14:23,490 --> 00:14:21,460
week to whatever that's going on in the

310
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:23,500
UFO world thanks a lot Alejandro and

311
00:14:27,300 --> 00:14:25,930
have a great great day yeah thank you

312
00:14:28,620 --> 00:14:27,310
very much I do want to say if you're

313
00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:28,630
gonna be in comic-con I'll be speaking

314
00:14:35,580 --> 00:14:32,050
at for National Geographic what about

315
00:14:38,220 --> 00:14:35,590
the Mars TV show at Comic Con and I'm

316
00:14:40,110 --> 00:14:38,230
gonna sneak in a little UFO alien stuff

317
00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:40,120
they don't know this but is that in no

318
00:14:45,780 --> 00:14:44,050
way there or was San Diego huh CND eggs

319
00:14:49,110 --> 00:14:45,790
and iego yeah I have a great time that

320
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:49,120
sounds like blast yeah okay alright I'll

321
00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:51,610
catch you next week later yep alright

322
00:14:57,090 --> 00:14:53,890
have a good one you too

323
00:15:01,260 --> 00:14:57,100
alright so our guest a repeat guest

324
00:15:04,140 --> 00:15:01,270
Kevin Randle he is definitely a

325
00:15:05,730 --> 00:15:04,150
prominent ufologists and you can find

326
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:05,740
all kinds of information about him even

327
00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:09,850
has a Wikipedia page so he's he has over

328
00:15:15,470 --> 00:15:13,090
80 books to his credit and we're gonna

329
00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:15,480
be touching on as we did last time

330
00:15:20,310 --> 00:15:18,370
encounter in the desert I may have said

331
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:20,320
that wrong that's about the Socorro case

332
00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:21,930
we're going to talk about that and

333
00:15:27,270 --> 00:15:25,050
probably mostly in the second hour and

334
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:27,280
it's always a great pleasure to have

335
00:15:33,420 --> 00:15:30,010
Kevin on he's a no-nonsense type of guy

336
00:15:35,430 --> 00:15:33,430
and I do have to say a lot of times when

337
00:15:39,660 --> 00:15:35,440
I'm trying to figure out if a story

338
00:15:42,900 --> 00:15:39,670
has merit and not I end up on somehow I

339
00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:42,910
always end up on Kevin's blog and I find

340
00:15:47,340 --> 00:15:44,410
out some great information there so

341
00:15:48,870 --> 00:15:47,350
Kevin welcome back to the show well

342
00:15:50,790 --> 00:15:48,880
thank you very much but I do need to

343
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:50,800
correct you on one point certainly I

344
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:53,170
said your book line yeah though the

345
00:16:00,060 --> 00:15:55,210
wikipedia page which says 80 books is

346
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:00,070
way out of date it's like 125 so okay I

347
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:02,970
can go in there and change that for you

348
00:16:06,570 --> 00:16:05,530
I'll just change it to like 500 or

349
00:16:11,190 --> 00:16:06,580
something just so you don't have to

350
00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:11,200
worry about it again I employed anything

351
00:16:14,550 --> 00:16:12,850
to Wikipedia or anything like that I

352
00:16:16,860 --> 00:16:14,560
don't know who created the page

353
00:16:18,690 --> 00:16:16,870
originally or how it how it came to be

354
00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:18,700
but I certainly applaud them for doing

355
00:16:24,270 --> 00:16:20,770
it for me yeah you can't you can't

356
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:24,280
create your own page I've heard so and

357
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:25,810
but I don't know if you can correct your

358
00:16:30,030 --> 00:16:27,010
own page you should be able to correct

359
00:16:32,220 --> 00:16:30,040
your own page I don't know I haven't

360
00:16:33,510 --> 00:16:32,230
haven't tried I've mentioned it to other

361
00:16:34,890 --> 00:16:33,520
people and some things what I've

362
00:16:37,620 --> 00:16:34,900
mentioned it if they have appeared on

363
00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:37,630
the on the page so I don't know how how

364
00:16:43,380 --> 00:16:41,050
all that works hey Kevin last time you

365
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:43,390
were on was last November and we talked

366
00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:46,090
about your book mostly and again we'll

367
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:49,290
touch on that it and but I wanted to

368
00:16:55,380 --> 00:16:52,810
start out we haven't talked but I

369
00:16:58,200 --> 00:16:55,390
believe we had a couple emails going

370
00:17:01,620 --> 00:16:58,210
back and forth about you know the the

371
00:17:05,370 --> 00:17:01,630
Pentagon you know when the when December

372
00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:05,380
16th when the article came out how a lot

373
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:07,930
of things seemed to change in that

374
00:17:10,710 --> 00:17:09,250
moment and I don't believe you and I

375
00:17:12,689 --> 00:17:10,720
have ever talked about that so I want to

376
00:17:15,360 --> 00:17:12,699
get your take on that whole situation

377
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:15,370
and how how you think it's affected you

378
00:17:24,410 --> 00:17:20,730
follow geez it was interesting that got

379
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:24,420
national attention and it got the

380
00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:26,650
legitimate national attention I mean it

381
00:17:29,580 --> 00:17:27,610
wasn't something that they were

382
00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:29,590
ridiculing and making fun of with the

383
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:31,510
first announcements and I thought that

384
00:17:35,790 --> 00:17:33,610
was a positive step for ufology because

385
00:17:38,970 --> 00:17:35,800
it shows it in a light that suggested is

386
00:17:40,350 --> 00:17:38,980
something more than a pseudoscience so

387
00:17:44,130 --> 00:17:40,360
we're looking at it in a different

388
00:17:46,230 --> 00:17:44,140
perspective that way but since that time

389
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:46,240
there has been little in the national

390
00:17:49,410 --> 00:17:48,730
media about that I know that in various

391
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:49,420
UFO

392
00:17:53,700 --> 00:17:51,010
forums it still talked about and I know

393
00:17:59,190 --> 00:17:53,710
that some of the skeptical community has

394
00:18:00,630 --> 00:17:59,200
gone after the the witnesses and the way

395
00:18:02,130 --> 00:18:00,640
it was presented and it really isn't

396
00:18:05,340 --> 00:18:02,140
that extraordinary and that sort of

397
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:05,350
thing but I think that the original take

398
00:18:12,570 --> 00:18:08,250
on it were showed you follow G or AG

399
00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:12,580
presented a UFO sighting in a legitimate

400
00:18:15,810 --> 00:18:14,050
light was something that was positive

401
00:18:17,730 --> 00:18:15,820
for all of you follow G and I think

402
00:18:19,980 --> 00:18:17,740
that's a goal of a lot of us who are

403
00:18:24,060 --> 00:18:19,990
working inside the UFO community is to

404
00:18:26,790 --> 00:18:24,070
move it away from the fringe elements

405
00:18:29,430 --> 00:18:26,800
into something that is more scientific

406
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:29,440
and something that can be looked at as

407
00:18:34,260 --> 00:18:32,530
as a real science as opposed to where we

408
00:18:37,020 --> 00:18:34,270
kind of are now and I think that was an

409
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:37,030
important step to take when the national

410
00:18:43,110 --> 00:18:39,610
media the legitimate media looked at it

411
00:18:47,420 --> 00:18:43,120
as something positive yeah I agree

412
00:18:50,010 --> 00:18:47,430
and to your point I have spoken to both

413
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:50,020
Ralph Blumenthal who is one of the

414
00:18:57,780 --> 00:18:53,730
authors on that and Leslie Kane both

415
00:19:00,140 --> 00:18:57,790
periodically every couple months or

416
00:19:02,190 --> 00:19:00,150
something we have an email exchange and

417
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:02,200
basically it sounds like there's still

418
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:04,210
something out there that they're going

419
00:19:13,710 --> 00:19:10,690
to release but no details that was that

420
00:19:15,750 --> 00:19:13,720
was the thing the original release was

421
00:19:17,130 --> 00:19:15,760
very interesting and you're now kind of

422
00:19:18,540 --> 00:19:17,140
waiting for the other shoe to drop

423
00:19:20,790 --> 00:19:18,550
you're waiting for something else to

424
00:19:22,410 --> 00:19:20,800
come about and it's it's like well we

425
00:19:23,970 --> 00:19:22,420
might have said too much too soon and

426
00:19:25,500 --> 00:19:23,980
we're doing some investigation and we're

427
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:25,510
looking at some other stuff and I think

428
00:19:29,220 --> 00:19:27,490
part of the problem is everybody focused

429
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:29,230
on the funding and the Pentagon study

430
00:19:34,500 --> 00:19:31,090
and we're worried about Bob Bigelow's

431
00:19:36,420 --> 00:19:34,510
role in that and Harry lead yeah I've

432
00:19:38,510 --> 00:19:36,430
wanted to say Robert Reed but I knew it

433
00:19:40,470 --> 00:19:38,520
I knew that wasn't right Harry Reid's

434
00:19:45,060 --> 00:19:40,480
involvement in getting the funding to

435
00:19:49,350 --> 00:19:45,070
the Pentagon and interestingly if you go

436
00:19:51,210 --> 00:19:49,360
back to the Condon committee is is one

437
00:19:52,710 --> 00:19:51,220
of the reasons they wanted to get rid

438
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:52,720
force wanted to get rid of the study of

439
00:19:56,940 --> 00:19:54,970
UFOs as they said in the next in the

440
00:19:59,760 --> 00:19:56,950
next 20 years is going to cost us 20

441
00:20:02,340 --> 00:19:59,770
million dollars and well that would have

442
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:02,350
been a bargain now compared to where we

443
00:20:05,470 --> 00:20:03,290
are but

444
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:05,480
but that's the thing you know that all

445
00:20:09,550 --> 00:20:06,770
of that was very interesting and it was

446
00:20:11,710 --> 00:20:09,560
covered in a way that you could see well

447
00:20:13,420 --> 00:20:11,720
is the Pentagon wasting money on this

448
00:20:15,340 --> 00:20:13,430
sort of thing who's financing this how

449
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:15,350
is all of this going on and they took it

450
00:20:22,390 --> 00:20:18,050
into a direction of suggesting some kind

451
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:22,400
of pork barrel funding for Bigelow and

452
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:27,050
his and his space explorations but we've

453
00:20:32,350 --> 00:20:29,090
we've now moved beyond that we've had

454
00:20:35,230 --> 00:20:32,360
quite a few months pass and we really

455
00:20:37,090 --> 00:20:35,240
haven't gotten more information about it

456
00:20:39,940 --> 00:20:37,100
and I would like to see some additional

457
00:20:42,130 --> 00:20:39,950
work I looking at the Mantell case and I

458
00:20:45,130 --> 00:20:42,140
bring that up because we don't have

459
00:20:47,260 --> 00:20:45,140
access to everything back when rappelled

460
00:20:49,050 --> 00:20:47,270
wrote about it in his book and rupert

461
00:20:51,460 --> 00:20:49,060
wrote about it and others wrote about it

462
00:20:53,470 --> 00:20:51,470
there was things that we were missing we

463
00:20:55,270 --> 00:20:53,480
didn't see we couldn't get to because it

464
00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:55,280
was classified it was buried in Blue

465
00:20:59,410 --> 00:20:57,290
Book it was hidden away here or there

466
00:21:01,450 --> 00:20:59,420
and at this point we now have all that

467
00:21:04,870 --> 00:21:01,460
information and it tells us where we

468
00:21:07,150 --> 00:21:04,880
need to go and with this new information

469
00:21:08,290 --> 00:21:07,160
we're still in the process of trying to

470
00:21:11,050 --> 00:21:08,300
get all that additional information

471
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:11,060
that'll help us formulate some sort of a

472
00:21:16,090 --> 00:21:13,730
rational opinion about it

473
00:21:18,100 --> 00:21:16,100
right hey Kevin it's sorry to cut you

474
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:18,110
there but we have to go to a break it's

475
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:21,170
time for our break and so we're on the

476
00:21:26,620 --> 00:21:22,610
show right now with Kevin Randall and

477
00:21:34,990 --> 00:21:26,630
you're listening to podcast UFO on kgr a

478
00:21:36,460 --> 00:21:35,000
radio and we'll be right back alright

479
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:36,470
gentlemen we're in the clear there's

480
00:21:41,830 --> 00:21:38,570
just over three minutes in this break

481
00:21:43,990 --> 00:21:41,840
all right thanks race so we just have to

482
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:44,000
keep that thought Kevin and go back to

483
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:47,330
it when we start when we start on the

484
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:53,570
radio so you know another another thing

485
00:21:58,690 --> 00:21:55,970
I think is up I'm going to get the

486
00:22:01,030 --> 00:21:58,700
chance to meet Lois Elizondo next

487
00:22:03,910 --> 00:22:01,040
weekend I hope I get him to talk you

488
00:22:06,100 --> 00:22:03,920
know and I just don't know if he'll talk

489
00:22:08,470 --> 00:22:06,110
off here of course if he talks off air

490
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:08,480
then he probably won't want me to repeat

491
00:22:12,730 --> 00:22:10,970
things that he says but hopefully I'll

492
00:22:16,180 --> 00:22:12,740
be able to understand what's going on

493
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:16,190
with the amount of videos because there

494
00:22:19,010 --> 00:22:17,250
was I

495
00:22:21,950 --> 00:22:19,020
George Knapp say originally that there

496
00:22:24,410 --> 00:22:21,960
were 12 videos but I haven't heard that

497
00:22:26,660 --> 00:22:24,420
repeated yet well the interesting thing

498
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:26,670
when you talked to somebody off the air

499
00:22:31,010 --> 00:22:29,010
or off the record they will tell you

500
00:22:32,570 --> 00:22:31,020
things and it gives you an idea of where

501
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:32,580
you need to search for something else so

502
00:22:35,450 --> 00:22:34,170
you can look for another avenue to get

503
00:22:38,390 --> 00:22:35,460
to that information and you're not

504
00:22:40,910 --> 00:22:38,400
violating the confidence your but you're

505
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:40,920
able to find something that you might

506
00:22:43,730 --> 00:22:42,210
not have found had you not have that

507
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:43,740
insider information or that additional

508
00:22:47,450 --> 00:22:46,050
information so you know it's always it's

509
00:22:49,370 --> 00:22:47,460
all good you've got to listen to what

510
00:22:52,970 --> 00:22:49,380
everybody says and see where you need to

511
00:22:56,750 --> 00:22:52,980
go right right there being as I

512
00:23:01,400 --> 00:22:56,760
mentioned you know the Ralph Blumenthal

513
00:23:03,410 --> 00:23:01,410
and Leslie Kane and Lewis Allison though

514
00:23:07,250 --> 00:23:03,420
they're kind of being controlled

515
00:23:10,550 --> 00:23:07,260
well at least Louis's by the to the

516
00:23:11,570 --> 00:23:10,560
stars Academy publicist is being very

517
00:23:13,730 --> 00:23:11,580
very careful you know

518
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:13,740
coast to coast is okay but don't go in

519
00:23:20,270 --> 00:23:15,810
it on any other show I think there's

520
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:20,280
been 160 you know shows on news shows

521
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:23,010
about you know the situation a lot of

522
00:23:27,860 --> 00:23:25,050
them did have Lois on it so but they're

523
00:23:29,990 --> 00:23:27,870
being very careful about whatever they

524
00:23:31,220 --> 00:23:30,000
do you know Leslie Kane it's been on my

525
00:23:39,740 --> 00:23:31,230
show many times she won't come back

526
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:39,750
right now for right now so in the past

527
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:41,250
we've kind of gotten into trouble with

528
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:42,930
people who are talking about some of

529
00:23:46,250 --> 00:23:44,730
this stuff and they're they want to be

530
00:23:47,900 --> 00:23:46,260
careful what they say and they're

531
00:23:49,850 --> 00:23:47,910
looking at the information is

532
00:23:54,020 --> 00:23:49,860
proprietary they don't want to share it

533
00:23:55,850 --> 00:23:54,030
yeah we are ready to come back yeah I

534
00:23:59,870 --> 00:23:55,860
thought we had another no problem just

535
00:24:02,120 --> 00:23:59,880
count us down okay Archer good to go we

536
00:24:04,460 --> 00:24:02,130
are right on the money we're good to go

537
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:04,470
up until about four minutes to the top

538
00:24:10,540 --> 00:24:06,450
of the hour Martin okay sure

539
00:24:16,670 --> 00:24:10,550
all right here we go in five four three

540
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:16,680
two welcome back to podcast UFO on kgr a

541
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:19,490
radio my guest is Kevin Randall and

542
00:24:23,930 --> 00:24:22,890
always fun to have on the show and Kevin

543
00:24:30,350 --> 00:24:23,940
I don't know if you remember the

544
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:30,360
senate's you left off on approximately I

545
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:31,770
know we've already talked about so many

546
00:24:39,830 --> 00:24:37,050
things on the break we were looking at I

547
00:24:44,570 --> 00:24:39,840
think the funding and the information

548
00:24:46,070 --> 00:24:44,580
has been sort of I guess embargoed and I

549
00:24:47,630 --> 00:24:46,080
can understand that in some some

550
00:24:49,190 --> 00:24:47,640
respects because you've gathered this

551
00:24:52,340 --> 00:24:49,200
information and you treat it as somewhat

552
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:52,350
proprietary and you want the opportunity

553
00:24:55,010 --> 00:24:53,730
to release it yourself and I know when

554
00:24:56,570 --> 00:24:55,020
Dodge Schmidt and I were looking on the

555
00:24:58,520 --> 00:24:56,580
working on the Roswell book we were

556
00:25:00,650 --> 00:24:58,530
reticent to say some things about it

557
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:00,660
because we felt that we wanted to break

558
00:25:04,010 --> 00:25:02,610
the break the story ourselves and we

559
00:25:08,210 --> 00:25:04,020
talked about it too early than other

560
00:25:10,250 --> 00:25:08,220
people would be able to push us to us to

561
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:10,260
the side and break the information that

562
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:11,730
we had uncovered so we wanted to be very

563
00:25:14,810 --> 00:25:13,530
circumspect at what we said but we also

564
00:25:17,030 --> 00:25:14,820
wanted to share what we were learning

565
00:25:18,740 --> 00:25:17,040
because we thought it was exciting and

566
00:25:20,690 --> 00:25:18,750
the people in the UFO community would be

567
00:25:23,750 --> 00:25:20,700
excited about it so you've got to

568
00:25:25,790 --> 00:25:23,760
balance those two ideas with you know

569
00:25:27,380 --> 00:25:25,800
what do you want to share with people to

570
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:27,390
keep them excited but what do you want

571
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:29,250
to hold back until you have an

572
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:31,050
opportunity to publish it in a different

573
00:25:36,020 --> 00:25:33,570
forum and so I can understand why there

574
00:25:40,100 --> 00:25:36,030
has been a reticence to talk about some

575
00:25:41,390 --> 00:25:40,110
of this stuff and what have you seen

576
00:25:45,740 --> 00:25:41,400
you know personally have you actually

577
00:25:47,300 --> 00:25:45,750
seen a difference yourself and the way I

578
00:25:49,730 --> 00:25:47,310
mean I've noticed a difference in the

579
00:25:51,650 --> 00:25:49,740
way the media in general is treating

580
00:25:54,770 --> 00:25:51,660
this whole thing and I just wondered if

581
00:25:56,419 --> 00:25:54,780
you actually see that as well well the

582
00:25:58,190 --> 00:25:56,429
way the media was treating this one is

583
00:26:00,110 --> 00:25:58,200
much different than it was treating some

584
00:26:02,630 --> 00:26:00,120
of the other things and you know harken

585
00:26:04,940 --> 00:26:02,640
back to the the idiotic experiment done

586
00:26:06,530 --> 00:26:04,950
in New Jersey with a couple of skeptics

587
00:26:08,510 --> 00:26:06,540
wanting to prove that ufologists were

588
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:08,520
very credulous and we're launching the

589
00:26:13,610 --> 00:26:12,090
balloons with flares on them and you

590
00:26:15,830 --> 00:26:13,620
know you look at what the reporters were

591
00:26:17,210 --> 00:26:15,840
doing about that and we had one reporter

592
00:26:18,860 --> 00:26:17,220
out there in the field and she's report

593
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:18,870
she's interviewing a little girl with a

594
00:26:21,950 --> 00:26:19,530
lollipop

595
00:26:24,410 --> 00:26:21,960
asking her about aliens and I'm thinking

596
00:26:26,660 --> 00:26:24,420
you know this isn't good for us and the

597
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:26,670
reporters are drawing conclusions that

598
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:29,250
the witnesses were making and so you saw

599
00:26:34,190 --> 00:26:31,770
the reporters interdict introducing the

600
00:26:37,010 --> 00:26:34,200
extra-terrestrial into the conversation

601
00:26:38,690 --> 00:26:37,020
where the witnesses weren't saying yeah

602
00:26:40,530 --> 00:26:38,700
it was an alien spacecraft or was any

603
00:26:42,870 --> 00:26:40,540
kind of spacecraft this is what we saw

604
00:26:45,330 --> 00:26:42,880
was doing and one of the best examples

605
00:26:46,590 --> 00:26:45,340
of that was as the object moved across

606
00:26:48,030 --> 00:26:46,600
the said balloon and moved across the

607
00:26:50,610 --> 00:26:48,040
sky with the flares and you can see it

608
00:26:52,350 --> 00:26:50,620
flickering and the reporter said well

609
00:26:53,910 --> 00:26:52,360
are they signaling us and she said no

610
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:53,920
it's going behind the trees and that's

611
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:55,330
what you're seeing is the flickering is

612
00:26:58,800 --> 00:26:56,890
because of the trees that's going behind

613
00:27:00,270 --> 00:26:58,810
and I was very impressed with the

614
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:00,280
witnesses in that and of course the

615
00:27:03,870 --> 00:27:02,050
experiment failed because it didn't

616
00:27:06,750 --> 00:27:03,880
prove that the UFO investigators were

617
00:27:08,220 --> 00:27:06,760
credulous I think I'm Mark Dantonio was

618
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:08,230
one of those that said you had some kind

619
00:27:12,030 --> 00:27:09,250
of a flare

620
00:27:13,890 --> 00:27:12,040
not it not a UFO I mean right off right

621
00:27:15,330 --> 00:27:13,900
off the bat so that the UFO

622
00:27:16,950 --> 00:27:15,340
investigators weren't credulous the

623
00:27:20,270 --> 00:27:16,960
witnesses weren't credulous the problem

624
00:27:23,460 --> 00:27:20,280
was the news media and with this new

625
00:27:26,310 --> 00:27:23,470
revelation we don't see that sort of

626
00:27:28,260 --> 00:27:26,320
credulous attitude by the reporters or

627
00:27:30,360 --> 00:27:28,270
they're trying to drag something into it

628
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:30,370
that isn't is not demonstrated by the

629
00:27:38,190 --> 00:27:32,890
facts as we now know them and what's

630
00:27:40,380 --> 00:27:38,200
your opinion on how t TSA has been

631
00:27:41,820 --> 00:27:40,390
handling you know the whole the whole

632
00:27:43,290 --> 00:27:41,830
thing do you think they're doing the

633
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:43,300
right thing because you really don't

634
00:27:48,030 --> 00:27:45,610
hear you're not really hearing anything

635
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:48,040
from some of the players that you'd

636
00:27:51,630 --> 00:27:49,570
expect to hear at least something from

637
00:27:53,610 --> 00:27:51,640
well I think that's one of the problems

638
00:27:56,940 --> 00:27:53,620
is that if you're going to make this

639
00:27:58,440 --> 00:27:56,950
announcement and make a tissue a press

640
00:28:00,210 --> 00:27:58,450
release you make a press release they

641
00:28:03,150 --> 00:28:00,220
should have press release then you sort

642
00:28:05,820 --> 00:28:03,160
of have an obligation to follow up and I

643
00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:05,830
think they may not have been ready for

644
00:28:09,690 --> 00:28:07,840
the reaction that they got from the

645
00:28:11,910 --> 00:28:09,700
media and the UFO community and the

646
00:28:13,890 --> 00:28:11,920
general public and didn't realize what

647
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:13,900
was going to happen and so they they

648
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:15,490
took a step back and I think you need to

649
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:18,730
be prepared for the additional questions

650
00:28:22,500 --> 00:28:20,530
when you say something like this you're

651
00:28:24,420 --> 00:28:22,510
going to get questions you're going to

652
00:28:25,830 --> 00:28:24,430
get intense interest you're going to get

653
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:25,840
people with a legitimate interest in

654
00:28:29,610 --> 00:28:28,090
what's going on and if you've made this

655
00:28:31,020 --> 00:28:29,620
announcement then you take a step back

656
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:31,030
well then you had you didn't handle the

657
00:28:36,900 --> 00:28:33,010
initial announcement properly and I

658
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:36,910
think that the taking the step back kind

659
00:28:41,190 --> 00:28:39,730
of feeds into the conspiracy theories

660
00:28:45,030 --> 00:28:41,200
way too much and we really don't need

661
00:28:50,340 --> 00:28:45,040
that and and you know while I'm talking

662
00:28:52,550 --> 00:28:50,350
about to the Stars Academy I have gotten

663
00:28:54,510 --> 00:28:52,560
a lot of people that have written me and

664
00:29:01,980 --> 00:28:54,520
you know

665
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:01,990
first of all they want to they get a lot

666
00:29:06,990 --> 00:29:04,330
of money in donations you know to

667
00:29:08,940 --> 00:29:07,000
initially and now you know everything's

668
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:08,950
about selling books selling t-shirts

669
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:10,810
stuff like that I'm on their mailing

670
00:29:16,500 --> 00:29:13,810
list so I see you know basically it is

671
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:16,510
kind of commercialized do you think the

672
00:29:22,860 --> 00:29:20,890
two can work together or do you think do

673
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:22,870
you think that it's kind of a strange

674
00:29:27,150 --> 00:29:25,690
part of it no I think it's a ridiculous

675
00:29:28,770 --> 00:29:27,160
question to ask about the money making

676
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:28,780
part of it out on your party understand

677
00:29:33,930 --> 00:29:30,850
but but to suggest there's something

678
00:29:38,850 --> 00:29:33,940
nefarious and making money on this does

679
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:38,860
ABC News CBS News are they operating in

680
00:29:43,650 --> 00:29:42,130
a philanthropic way I mean are they or

681
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:43,660
are they out to make money and isn't the

682
00:29:48,390 --> 00:29:45,250
point to do stories that will gain

683
00:29:50,490 --> 00:29:48,400
viewers which will generate ad revenue

684
00:29:52,170 --> 00:29:50,500
which will pay everybody salaries you

685
00:29:53,550 --> 00:29:52,180
know when you start asking is it right

686
00:29:55,950 --> 00:29:53,560
for them to earn money the question is

687
00:29:57,660 --> 00:29:55,960
why would it be wrong you know they've

688
00:30:03,150 --> 00:29:57,670
got that empirical seems to think it is

689
00:30:04,980 --> 00:30:03,160
I mean I play that apply play to UFOs

690
00:30:07,890 --> 00:30:04,990
well you're just in it for the money

691
00:30:09,930 --> 00:30:07,900
excuse me ABC News guy aren't you in it

692
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:09,940
for the money isn't that the whole point

693
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:12,010
I know when Don and I were writing the

694
00:30:16,140 --> 00:30:13,810
first Roswell book I didn't care about

695
00:30:17,850 --> 00:30:16,150
the money I thought we had a great story

696
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:17,860
to tell and I wanted to tell that story

697
00:30:23,100 --> 00:30:20,890
and if we had had to publish the book

698
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:23,110
ourselves and not gotten any kind of in

699
00:30:27,990 --> 00:30:26,050
advance well that so be it and that's

700
00:30:29,690 --> 00:30:28,000
the thing about the blog I make no money

701
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:29,700
on the blog there's no no day no

702
00:30:35,910 --> 00:30:32,530
donation button there are no ads on the

703
00:30:38,820 --> 00:30:35,920
blog I just share the information with

704
00:30:40,860 --> 00:30:38,830
people who are interested in it should I

705
00:30:42,690 --> 00:30:40,870
should I put people have said well you

706
00:30:44,310 --> 00:30:42,700
need to put a donation button up there

707
00:30:46,650 --> 00:30:44,320
make some money off it I'm thinking I

708
00:30:48,570 --> 00:30:46,660
don't really want to do that but there

709
00:30:51,450 --> 00:30:48,580
is nothing wrong with that

710
00:30:53,610 --> 00:30:51,460
why should this field be the one where

711
00:30:56,820 --> 00:30:53,620
they're always asking about the money

712
00:30:58,620 --> 00:30:56,830
why is the money important wire to to do

713
00:31:02,130 --> 00:30:58,630
proper investigations you need money and

714
00:31:03,870 --> 00:31:02,140
and Don and I were using them using our

715
00:31:05,460 --> 00:31:03,880
own money to investigate the Roswell

716
00:31:08,370 --> 00:31:05,470
case when we began that and

717
00:31:11,190 --> 00:31:08,380
then when we got an advance for the book

718
00:31:13,110 --> 00:31:11,200
which wasn't all that great that money

719
00:31:14,789 --> 00:31:13,120
went right back into the investigation I

720
00:31:16,649 --> 00:31:14,799
mean it costs money to travel to New

721
00:31:18,810 --> 00:31:16,659
Mexico and stay in New Mexico and track

722
00:31:20,610 --> 00:31:18,820
down witnesses back in the olden days

723
00:31:21,570 --> 00:31:20,620
which a lot of the younger people won't

724
00:31:23,669 --> 00:31:21,580
understand

725
00:31:26,039 --> 00:31:23,679
we were running up huge phone bills

726
00:31:30,029 --> 00:31:26,049
because we didn't have a way to call

727
00:31:32,100 --> 00:31:30,039
around the nation for free and now you

728
00:31:33,779 --> 00:31:32,110
can call a Canada and Mexico and all

729
00:31:36,149 --> 00:31:33,789
around the world for free

730
00:31:38,130 --> 00:31:36,159
we've got Skype I can interview people

731
00:31:40,350 --> 00:31:38,140
on skype I don't have to go and visit

732
00:31:42,810 --> 00:31:40,360
them one of the things we wanted to do

733
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:42,820
and it's kind of relevant to this is we

734
00:31:45,419 --> 00:31:45,010
didn't I didn't want a phone Sheridan

735
00:31:47,460 --> 00:31:45,429
Cavitt

736
00:31:48,630 --> 00:31:47,470
I wanted to be in the room with him when

737
00:31:49,890 --> 00:31:48,640
we first interviewed him because I

738
00:31:51,870 --> 00:31:49,900
wanted to be able to watch his body

739
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:51,880
language and watch his reactions and see

740
00:31:56,130 --> 00:31:54,730
how he responded to the questions you

741
00:31:58,710 --> 00:31:56,140
can't do that on the telephone you can

742
00:32:01,950 --> 00:31:58,720
do it on Skype and you can do it on some

743
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:01,960
other ways so we had to go to meet we

744
00:32:05,700 --> 00:32:03,490
met him in Arizona we hadn't travel to

745
00:32:08,279 --> 00:32:05,710
Arizona to meet him down there he was

746
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:08,289
they were wintering cab the cabinets

747
00:32:13,590 --> 00:32:12,370
were wintering in in Arizona so we went

748
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:13,600
to visit them and I had an opportunity

749
00:32:21,090 --> 00:32:15,610
and one of the things that came out of

750
00:32:23,039 --> 00:32:21,100
that was we were talking about the

751
00:32:27,210 --> 00:32:23,049
Roswell case and I asked him a question

752
00:32:28,950 --> 00:32:27,220
and he got very nervous and he leaned

753
00:32:30,779 --> 00:32:28,960
forward he picked up a magazine and he

754
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:30,789
leaned back and he threw the magazine

755
00:32:35,430 --> 00:32:32,730
down he says did Billerica tell you that

756
00:32:36,779 --> 00:32:35,440
and I dumbly said not was that one

757
00:32:39,570 --> 00:32:36,789
easily because I'm trying to protect mil

758
00:32:42,510 --> 00:32:39,580
Rickett and and when easily had passed

759
00:32:44,789 --> 00:32:42,520
away by then I think so I was protecting

760
00:32:47,610 --> 00:32:44,799
Rickett and he just relaxed immediately

761
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:47,620
on that realizing that you know but we

762
00:32:51,299 --> 00:32:49,450
supposedly didn't know something that we

763
00:32:53,070 --> 00:32:51,309
knew and we had gotten from Bill Rickon

764
00:32:54,919 --> 00:32:53,080
but I mean that's the important thing I

765
00:32:57,960 --> 00:32:54,929
got to watch his body language I got to

766
00:33:01,620 --> 00:32:57,970
watch what he was doing and how he

767
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:01,630
reacted to the questions and so you had

768
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:03,370
to go to those places to interview those

769
00:33:11,549 --> 00:33:06,850
people so making the money you know

770
00:33:14,850 --> 00:33:11,559
helped defray the expenses Walt Andres

771
00:33:16,289 --> 00:33:14,860
got really annoyed with me at a MUFON

772
00:33:17,570 --> 00:33:16,299
conference and wanted to know who is

773
00:33:19,789 --> 00:33:17,580
funding our research

774
00:33:22,489 --> 00:33:19,799
and I think he saw that we were somehow

775
00:33:24,830 --> 00:33:22,499
taking money out of his pocket that we

776
00:33:26,509 --> 00:33:24,840
were we had tapped a resource that he

777
00:33:27,950 --> 00:33:26,519
had not tapped and we were getting money

778
00:33:29,060 --> 00:33:27,960
that would have gone to him if it hadn't

779
00:33:30,350 --> 00:33:29,070
been for us and of course that wasn't

780
00:33:31,909 --> 00:33:30,360
true and he want to know who is funding

781
00:33:33,049 --> 00:33:31,919
as I would I said well that's really

782
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:33,059
none of your business

783
00:33:38,180 --> 00:33:36,690
but I've seen the same thing in in in

784
00:33:39,289 --> 00:33:38,190
the writing you know you mentioned all

785
00:33:40,519 --> 00:33:39,299
the books and a lot of books I've

786
00:33:42,379 --> 00:33:40,529
written or science fiction and I've been

787
00:33:44,359 --> 00:33:42,389
to science fiction conventions and there

788
00:33:46,009 --> 00:33:44,369
are actually people in science fiction

789
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:46,019
conventions to think if you've got if

790
00:33:50,149 --> 00:33:47,970
you've written a book a science fiction

791
00:33:52,729 --> 00:33:50,159
novel or something like that or India

792
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:52,739
book then you've somehow taken money out

793
00:33:56,060 --> 00:33:54,090
of their pocket because they didn't have

794
00:33:57,830 --> 00:33:56,070
the opportunity to write the book you

795
00:34:00,499 --> 00:33:57,840
cannot possibly write all the science

796
00:34:02,599 --> 00:34:00,509
fiction books published in a year so my

797
00:34:04,340 --> 00:34:02,609
earning some money writing a science

798
00:34:05,539 --> 00:34:04,350
fiction novel doesn't take money from

799
00:34:07,549 --> 00:34:05,549
you but there are too many people that

800
00:34:09,109 --> 00:34:07,559
view it that way and I think in the UFO

801
00:34:10,970 --> 00:34:09,119
community there's an awful lot of people

802
00:34:14,089 --> 00:34:10,980
thinking that if you've been invited to

803
00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:14,099
a to lecture or make a presentation

804
00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:16,169
someplace that that takes money out of

805
00:34:20,240 --> 00:34:17,760
their pocket when it really doesn't

806
00:34:23,089 --> 00:34:20,250
because they couldn't do everything even

807
00:34:25,730 --> 00:34:23,099
if they if even if they tried and so the

808
00:34:28,909 --> 00:34:25,740
question about them making money really

809
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:28,919
to me is an irrelevant question and not

810
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:30,690
an important question because it's not

811
00:34:35,359 --> 00:34:33,690
my money and it will help them fund

812
00:34:35,899 --> 00:34:35,369
their research which would probably be a

813
00:34:38,299 --> 00:34:35,909
good thing

814
00:34:42,020 --> 00:34:38,309
yeah and now now they'll be sending me a

815
00:34:44,299 --> 00:34:42,030
check I'm sure for that well you know I

816
00:34:46,129 --> 00:34:44,309
mean one of the angry emails I got I

817
00:34:48,289 --> 00:34:46,139
remember was something like you know of

818
00:34:50,990 --> 00:34:48,299
course Chris Mellon is from a very

819
00:34:53,270 --> 00:34:51,000
wealthy family the Mellon bank and then

820
00:34:55,430 --> 00:34:53,280
you know Tom belongs worth 80 million so

821
00:34:56,930 --> 00:34:55,440
why you know why aren't they you know

822
00:34:58,609 --> 00:34:56,940
using their own money type of thing but

823
00:35:00,470 --> 00:34:58,619
you're right why it's a smart decision

824
00:35:02,990 --> 00:35:00,480
not to use your own money if you're

825
00:35:05,539 --> 00:35:03,000
starting something you know of course it

826
00:35:07,250 --> 00:35:05,549
makes total sense to me and why do you

827
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:07,260
think they're obligated to fund this

828
00:35:10,910 --> 00:35:09,210
just because they happen to have that's

829
00:35:12,620 --> 00:35:10,920
right a couple of million dollars you

830
00:35:14,180 --> 00:35:12,630
know I mean why do you expect them to

831
00:35:16,549 --> 00:35:14,190
fund that out of their own pocket if

832
00:35:18,319 --> 00:35:16,559
they can tap into a revenue stream that

833
00:35:20,299 --> 00:35:18,329
will help us fund help them fund the

834
00:35:24,940 --> 00:35:20,309
research you know I don't I don't

835
00:35:27,260 --> 00:35:24,950
understand that this if we're somehow

836
00:35:29,180 --> 00:35:27,270
obligated to provide all this

837
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:29,190
information to people for free without

838
00:35:35,140 --> 00:35:31,370
any kind of compensation

839
00:35:36,940 --> 00:35:35,150
and yet they go to their jobs not out of

840
00:35:38,770 --> 00:35:36,950
the goodness of their hearts just to do

841
00:35:40,990 --> 00:35:38,780
something positive they go to earn money

842
00:35:43,540 --> 00:35:41,000
and why shouldn't we be allowed to make

843
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:43,550
some money on this I think that the

844
00:35:46,420 --> 00:35:45,050
other the other thing that's always kind

845
00:35:48,850 --> 00:35:46,430
of funny is people worry about the

846
00:35:50,230 --> 00:35:48,860
advances on the books and you look at

847
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:50,240
the amount of work that went into get

848
00:35:53,260 --> 00:35:51,650
that book and get the book written and

849
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:53,270
all of that stuff which is much easier

850
00:35:56,140 --> 00:35:54,770
today with a computer by the way than it

851
00:35:59,650 --> 00:35:56,150
was back when we were banging it out on

852
00:36:02,860 --> 00:35:59,660
a typewriter yeah but but but but the

853
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:02,870
thing is if you if you look at it most

854
00:36:06,850 --> 00:36:04,370
writers aren't even making minimum wage

855
00:36:09,100 --> 00:36:06,860
because of the on a time and effort that

856
00:36:10,750 --> 00:36:09,110
they've spent in an attempt to produce

857
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:10,760
whether it's a fiction book that they're

858
00:36:15,130 --> 00:36:12,530
they're making up as they go along and

859
00:36:17,410 --> 00:36:15,140
I'm done I've done action-adventure

860
00:36:19,030 --> 00:36:17,420
novels that required a great deal of

861
00:36:21,850 --> 00:36:19,040
research so you could get the stuff

862
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:21,860
accurate and so even if you're doing

863
00:36:24,610 --> 00:36:23,210
that sort of thing you want to you want

864
00:36:28,020 --> 00:36:24,620
the information to be as accurate as

865
00:36:30,700 --> 00:36:28,030
possible so I don't understand this this

866
00:36:34,570 --> 00:36:30,710
irritation and people making money or

867
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:34,580
getting funding to do the research right

868
00:36:41,050 --> 00:36:38,330
right well I thank you for for

869
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:41,060
addressing that I think I have brought

870
00:36:45,790 --> 00:36:43,130
that up to a couple of other people to

871
00:36:47,370 --> 00:36:45,800
get their perspective so before we talk

872
00:36:51,100 --> 00:36:47,380
I want to talk about the Roswell

873
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:51,110
theories the one actually I had a guest

874
00:36:55,690 --> 00:36:53,290
on the show while back and I know you

875
00:36:58,300 --> 00:36:55,700
you responded on your blog about that

876
00:37:00,100 --> 00:36:58,310
but did you hear the question we had

877
00:37:02,590 --> 00:37:00,110
during the news you know someone wanted

878
00:37:04,690 --> 00:37:02,600
to know why should we care about UFOs

879
00:37:06,190 --> 00:37:04,700
that simple question like that so I'm

880
00:37:09,070 --> 00:37:06,200
going to pose that question to you why

881
00:37:10,630 --> 00:37:09,080
should we care about UFOs just like that

882
00:37:12,870 --> 00:37:10,640
average person out there that doesn't

883
00:37:15,370 --> 00:37:12,880
care about them asking us that question

884
00:37:16,870 --> 00:37:15,380
well then we can ask that simple

885
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:16,880
question why do you care about history

886
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:18,410
or why do you carry about the Battle of

887
00:37:23,380 --> 00:37:20,450
Gettysburg or why do you carry up care

888
00:37:26,820 --> 00:37:23,390
about all these other things that may

889
00:37:29,410 --> 00:37:26,830
not impact your life directly and and I

890
00:37:33,820 --> 00:37:29,420
think that the the important part of

891
00:37:36,250 --> 00:37:33,830
ufology is if we demonstrate that there

892
00:37:38,620 --> 00:37:36,260
is alien visitation it suggests that

893
00:37:40,180 --> 00:37:38,630
there is a possibility of interstellar

894
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:40,190
travel and that opens up the whole

895
00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:43,130
galaxy to us and if you know something

896
00:37:47,330 --> 00:37:44,730
is possible

897
00:37:48,650 --> 00:37:47,340
then you're most much more likely to

898
00:37:50,330 --> 00:37:48,660
invent it than if you believed it to be

899
00:37:51,590 --> 00:37:50,340
impossible why should I do that it's

900
00:37:53,750 --> 00:37:51,600
impossible you can't do that

901
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:53,760
interstellar flight is impossible we

902
00:37:58,250 --> 00:37:55,770
can't do that but if we can learn that

903
00:38:00,920 --> 00:37:58,260
it's possible that may open up the

904
00:38:04,340 --> 00:38:00,930
entire galaxy to us and change our

905
00:38:06,350 --> 00:38:04,350
perspective on practically everything I

906
00:38:07,940 --> 00:38:06,360
think the other point is and I've said

907
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:07,950
this I've said this in the past you know

908
00:38:13,430 --> 00:38:11,490
why people are also also afraid of some

909
00:38:15,830 --> 00:38:13,440
of this and would panic if they knew the

910
00:38:18,140 --> 00:38:15,840
truth and I'm thinking you know we've

911
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:18,150
been talking about this well you and I

912
00:38:22,010 --> 00:38:19,770
haven't but people have been talking

913
00:38:25,610 --> 00:38:22,020
about this since basically the Foo

914
00:38:26,870 --> 00:38:25,620
Fighters of World War two and you look

915
00:38:28,850 --> 00:38:26,880
at it from that perspective you know

916
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:28,860
here is if there's alien visitation it

917
00:38:31,970 --> 00:38:29,970
goes back that far well obviously

918
00:38:33,950 --> 00:38:31,980
they're not hostile they haven't invaded

919
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:33,960
they haven't done anything they're just

920
00:38:38,300 --> 00:38:36,930
out there observing what we do I mean so

921
00:38:41,180 --> 00:38:38,310
there's no reason to be frightened about

922
00:38:46,700 --> 00:38:41,190
it but who knows what sort of technology

923
00:38:48,530 --> 00:38:46,710
that they may provide for us it would be

924
00:38:52,220 --> 00:38:48,540
very beneficial to the entire human race

925
00:38:54,770 --> 00:38:52,230
if they are in fact visiting but we also

926
00:38:56,710 --> 00:38:54,780
have to look at it you know from the

927
00:38:58,970 --> 00:38:56,720
perspective of every time and

928
00:39:00,320 --> 00:38:58,980
technologically inferior civilization

929
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:00,330
comes into contact with the

930
00:39:03,980 --> 00:39:02,370
technologically superior civilization

931
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:03,990
that technologically inferior

932
00:39:08,270 --> 00:39:06,690
civilization ceases to exist not

933
00:39:10,250 --> 00:39:08,280
necessarily through conquest or anything

934
00:39:12,830 --> 00:39:10,260
else the me reduction of the technology

935
00:39:15,170 --> 00:39:12,840
radically Auto alters the society and we

936
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:15,180
have numerous examples of that

937
00:39:19,310 --> 00:39:17,130
throughout history there was an

938
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:19,320
anthropologist who was studying a group

939
00:39:25,340 --> 00:39:22,650
of people and they had a very rigorous

940
00:39:27,500 --> 00:39:25,350
procedure for borrowing a stone ax from

941
00:39:29,270 --> 00:39:27,510
one of the head men you know they if you

942
00:39:32,060 --> 00:39:29,280
needed a stone axe to do something you

943
00:39:33,950 --> 00:39:32,070
had to go through this ritual or this

944
00:39:36,230 --> 00:39:33,960
procedure to gather it and the

945
00:39:38,270 --> 00:39:36,240
anthropologist showed up with steel axes

946
00:39:40,130 --> 00:39:38,280
and he was using those to bribe people

947
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:40,140
to talk to him well he's just now

948
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:43,290
undercut one of the underpinnings of the

949
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:45,330
society just the introduction of the

950
00:39:50,660 --> 00:39:46,890
steel axe which is far superior to a

951
00:39:53,780 --> 00:39:50,670
stone axe by I guess his own ignorance

952
00:39:56,690 --> 00:39:53,790
not understanding the importance of the

953
00:39:59,840 --> 00:39:56,700
ritual of borrowing the steel axe so you

954
00:40:02,480 --> 00:39:59,850
you open up that door so if we did learn

955
00:40:06,770 --> 00:40:02,490
the truth and even learning the truth

956
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:06,780
may alter our perspective of the world

957
00:40:14,420 --> 00:40:09,890
and the cosmos and realize that we can I

958
00:40:16,370 --> 00:40:14,430
guess exploit other planets so uh you

959
00:40:18,740 --> 00:40:16,380
know it's a it's important to a lot of

960
00:40:20,810 --> 00:40:18,750
us for the simple knowledge it's

961
00:40:23,240 --> 00:40:20,820
important to us to solve the mystery and

962
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:23,250
I guess a good example is the curse of

963
00:40:27,410 --> 00:40:24,810
Oak Island in which I've addressed on my

964
00:40:29,150 --> 00:40:27,420
blog number a number of times and it's

965
00:40:30,500 --> 00:40:29,160
you know why is that important to me or

966
00:40:32,150 --> 00:40:30,510
anybody else well it's a mystery and

967
00:40:33,950 --> 00:40:32,160
I've been fascinated by the thing since

968
00:40:36,050 --> 00:40:33,960
the mid-1970s

969
00:40:38,630 --> 00:40:36,060
I think they've solved the mystery that

970
00:40:40,580 --> 00:40:38,640
there is no treasure but I understand

971
00:40:42,470 --> 00:40:40,590
they're gonna do season six I'm gonna be

972
00:40:44,450 --> 00:40:42,480
doing four more of them yeah but well

973
00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:44,460
why not they're making a lot of money on

974
00:40:49,370 --> 00:40:47,250
it the treasure is the treasure is the

975
00:40:50,870 --> 00:40:49,380
show yeah and you know that's that's

976
00:40:52,730 --> 00:40:50,880
kind of fascinating but the point simply

977
00:40:53,870 --> 00:40:52,740
is you know that if they found a

978
00:40:56,750 --> 00:40:53,880
treasure they're not gonna share it with

979
00:40:58,910 --> 00:40:56,760
me so why do I care and I care because

980
00:41:00,440 --> 00:40:58,920
it solves that mystery and I'm

981
00:41:01,670 --> 00:41:00,450
interested in the solutions of the

982
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:01,680
mystery and I think that's another part

983
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:05,370
of it it solves a mystery well yeah yeah

984
00:41:09,350 --> 00:41:07,050
that whole I followed a little bit of

985
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:09,360
that Oak Island I don't have I don't

986
00:41:14,780 --> 00:41:11,850
have cable I don't have TV but I did

987
00:41:16,340 --> 00:41:14,790
follow that just the whole mystery part

988
00:41:20,390 --> 00:41:16,350
of it I'd heard about it many years ago

989
00:41:23,300 --> 00:41:20,400
possibly even the 70s and you know I

990
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:23,310
just had a picture in my mind with what

991
00:41:27,740 --> 00:41:24,690
was going on with it but it was totally

992
00:41:30,140 --> 00:41:27,750
once I saw like on YouTube or something

993
00:41:31,580 --> 00:41:30,150
a video of what was actually happening

994
00:41:35,300 --> 00:41:31,590
is totally different than I was

995
00:41:37,490 --> 00:41:35,310
picturing it but if I remember right

996
00:41:40,100 --> 00:41:37,500
people have died trying to find what

997
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:40,110
probably isn't there right six people I

998
00:41:46,190 --> 00:41:42,090
think have died you know in the in the

999
00:41:47,660 --> 00:41:46,200
process I tried trying to find it so

1000
00:41:49,250 --> 00:41:47,670
that you know that's the curse of Oak

1001
00:41:52,490 --> 00:41:49,260
Island and the seventh must die before

1002
00:41:55,370 --> 00:41:52,500
we can find the treasure but I read a

1003
00:41:58,190 --> 00:41:55,380
book by DRC okay well Brian I think it

1004
00:42:00,350 --> 00:41:58,200
was back in the 70s you know called the

1005
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:00,360
Big Dig and they were how they were

1006
00:42:05,540 --> 00:42:03,690
going to defeat the the money pit

1007
00:42:07,220 --> 00:42:05,550
hey and I actually said on my blog the

1008
00:42:08,570 --> 00:42:07,230
money pit is is just where they're

1009
00:42:10,220 --> 00:42:08,580
throwing all the money there I get

1010
00:42:12,500 --> 00:42:10,230
anything out there it's a big

1011
00:42:14,900 --> 00:42:12,510
they're throwing their money into but

1012
00:42:17,660 --> 00:42:14,910
it's a fascinating mystery and I think I

1013
00:42:19,339 --> 00:42:17,670
think it's been solved joy Steele did a

1014
00:42:22,670 --> 00:42:19,349
book about it

1015
00:42:24,710 --> 00:42:22,680
postulating about what what the initial

1016
00:42:26,030 --> 00:42:24,720
thing was and I think she's pretty much

1017
00:42:29,660 --> 00:42:26,040
on the right track

1018
00:42:31,819 --> 00:42:29,670
about what what was going on there but

1019
00:42:33,319 --> 00:42:31,829
you know it's a mystery that that is

1020
00:42:36,170 --> 00:42:33,329
interesting and it's something you know

1021
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:36,180
it's like the Loch Ness monster like to

1022
00:42:40,190 --> 00:42:38,010
know the solution there think I know

1023
00:42:41,810 --> 00:42:40,200
what it is which will make on many

1024
00:42:45,319 --> 00:42:41,820
people unhappy but it but you know

1025
00:42:46,970 --> 00:42:45,329
that's another mystery that needs to be

1026
00:42:48,829 --> 00:42:46,980
solved and you you followed you Falls

1027
00:42:50,900 --> 00:42:48,839
right into that same category here's a

1028
00:42:52,550 --> 00:42:50,910
mystery we need to solve I look at some

1029
00:42:55,910 --> 00:42:52,560
of the old classic cases and I think we

1030
00:42:59,359 --> 00:42:55,920
have good solutions for them now as we

1031
00:43:02,060 --> 00:42:59,369
understand more about the world around

1032
00:43:03,470 --> 00:43:02,070
us and we understand more of what was

1033
00:43:06,620 --> 00:43:03,480
going on and some of the things that

1034
00:43:08,750 --> 00:43:06,630
were hidden from us originally are now

1035
00:43:11,240 --> 00:43:08,760
open to us that the files have been

1036
00:43:12,740 --> 00:43:11,250
Declassified that was the other thing I

1037
00:43:14,240 --> 00:43:12,750
think the conduct materi said well there

1038
00:43:16,309 --> 00:43:14,250
was never any secret investigation of

1039
00:43:18,020 --> 00:43:16,319
UFOs and I found a document the project

1040
00:43:20,270 --> 00:43:18,030
Bluebook files was stamped secret well

1041
00:43:21,770 --> 00:43:20,280
that kind of shoots doubt down their

1042
00:43:24,710 --> 00:43:21,780
proud apparently were some secret

1043
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:24,720
investigations going on and I know the

1044
00:43:28,670 --> 00:43:27,210
Mantell case part of that file was

1045
00:43:30,500 --> 00:43:28,680
classified but it was classified because

1046
00:43:32,630 --> 00:43:30,510
the accident investigation part of it

1047
00:43:37,010 --> 00:43:32,640
was classified because the Air Force

1048
00:43:39,470 --> 00:43:37,020
always did that so that the witnesses

1049
00:43:41,720 --> 00:43:39,480
the people involved in the accident and

1050
00:43:43,849 --> 00:43:41,730
the investigation whatever that accident

1051
00:43:44,839 --> 00:43:43,859
investigation might be would feel free

1052
00:43:46,849 --> 00:43:44,849
to talk and there wouldn't be

1053
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:46,859
ramifications from higher up in the

1054
00:43:50,630 --> 00:43:48,450
chain of command they they knew that

1055
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:50,640
they their words would not come back to

1056
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:52,170
haunt them so they were they could speak

1057
00:43:55,849 --> 00:43:53,970
freely so there's there's times when the

1058
00:43:57,380 --> 00:43:55,859
classification is necessary and then the

1059
00:43:59,059 --> 00:43:57,390
Mantell case that made perfect sense

1060
00:44:01,309 --> 00:43:59,069
that the accident investigation was

1061
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:01,319
classified I think it was classified

1062
00:44:07,550 --> 00:44:05,210
partially because in it the other pilots

1063
00:44:09,230 --> 00:44:07,560
admitted to violating military

1064
00:44:11,630 --> 00:44:09,240
regulations which said you can't climb

1065
00:44:15,109 --> 00:44:11,640
above 14,000 feet without oxygen and

1066
00:44:17,420 --> 00:44:15,119
they were they were up at 20,000 22,000

1067
00:44:19,190 --> 00:44:17,430
feet without oxygen and so they were in

1068
00:44:21,470 --> 00:44:19,200
violation of military regulations so

1069
00:44:24,349 --> 00:44:21,480
that wouldn't have come out had

1070
00:44:25,849 --> 00:44:24,359
had not been for the classification of

1071
00:44:28,010 --> 00:44:25,859
the accident investigation and the guys

1072
00:44:29,750 --> 00:44:28,020
being feeling feeling there would be no

1073
00:44:32,300 --> 00:44:29,760
ramifications for their violation of the

1074
00:44:35,180 --> 00:44:32,310
regulation man as man telling them

1075
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:35,190
higher but I mean the point simply is we

1076
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:36,930
have better information now and better

1077
00:44:41,390 --> 00:44:39,450
access to information and we're able to

1078
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:41,400
solve some of the older cases that were

1079
00:44:48,980 --> 00:44:43,530
mysterious at one time but there's still

1080
00:44:51,820 --> 00:44:48,990
some cases that just kind of defy

1081
00:44:54,530 --> 00:44:51,830
explanation and you can and you can

1082
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:54,540
minimize them by making suggestions the

1083
00:44:57,380 --> 00:44:55,890
Socorro case which I guess we'll talk

1084
00:45:01,099 --> 00:44:57,390
about later and say well I was single

1085
00:45:04,130 --> 00:45:01,109
witness well not really but you you kind

1086
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:04,140
of minimize it's important by doing that

1087
00:45:08,090 --> 00:45:04,770
sort of thing

1088
00:45:10,250 --> 00:45:08,100
the Levelland case from 1957 where

1089
00:45:12,770 --> 00:45:10,260
you've got the craft interacting with

1090
00:45:14,660 --> 00:45:12,780
the environment but there's no physical

1091
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:14,670
evidence left behind so you've only got

1092
00:45:19,220 --> 00:45:16,530
witness testimony now there's a

1093
00:45:21,590 --> 00:45:19,230
possibility of physical evidence that

1094
00:45:23,570 --> 00:45:21,600
was ignored at the time but but you know

1095
00:45:26,900 --> 00:45:23,580
well it's only witness testimony and we

1096
00:45:29,210 --> 00:45:26,910
know I witness testimony isn't very good

1097
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:29,220
and that sort of thing so we can kind of

1098
00:45:34,130 --> 00:45:31,650
mitigate the cases in that way but I

1099
00:45:35,780 --> 00:45:34,140
think that you know our our our

1100
00:45:37,070 --> 00:45:35,790
standards in ufology and our

1101
00:45:38,750 --> 00:45:37,080
investigative techniques have improved

1102
00:45:41,510 --> 00:45:38,760
over the years as we learn more of these

1103
00:45:44,420 --> 00:45:41,520
things right I've heard that you know I

1104
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:44,430
guess on the show one time speculate

1105
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:46,410
that there's there's a lot of things

1106
00:45:51,530 --> 00:45:48,690
that never made it into project Bluebook

1107
00:45:53,450 --> 00:45:51,540
that were classified instead have you

1108
00:45:54,230 --> 00:45:53,460
ever heard any rumblings along those

1109
00:45:57,859 --> 00:45:54,240
lines

1110
00:45:59,359 --> 00:45:57,869
oh absolutely a high-neck said it that

1111
00:46:01,340 --> 00:45:59,369
the really good case has never made it

1112
00:46:03,170 --> 00:46:01,350
to Blue Book when the conduct committee

1113
00:46:04,849 --> 00:46:03,180
was investigating it for the universe of

1114
00:46:06,770 --> 00:46:04,859
Colorado back in the nineteen

1115
00:46:09,859 --> 00:46:06,780
early late 1960s the the air force

1116
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:09,869
investigation of it there was a series

1117
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:11,850
of sightings in belt Montana Malstrom

1118
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:14,970
air force base and one of them the the

1119
00:46:19,430 --> 00:46:17,490
object shut down the missiles which

1120
00:46:22,430 --> 00:46:19,440
makes it an issue of national security

1121
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:22,440
sure because an outside force being able

1122
00:46:27,290 --> 00:46:24,210
to stop the launch of the missiles you

1123
00:46:29,990 --> 00:46:27,300
know in in a interact with the system in

1124
00:46:31,430 --> 00:46:30,000
a very negative way and the conduct

1125
00:46:34,220 --> 00:46:31,440
committee guys were there and they had

1126
00:46:35,210 --> 00:46:34,230
their security clearances and the UFO

1127
00:46:36,740 --> 00:46:35,220
officer

1128
00:46:38,780 --> 00:46:36,750
told him I can't talk about that it's a

1129
00:46:41,089 --> 00:46:38,790
national security so we know that there

1130
00:46:43,339 --> 00:46:41,099
was items of national security that were

1131
00:46:46,190 --> 00:46:43,349
involved in UFO sightings that

1132
00:46:47,390 --> 00:46:46,200
prohibited getting into the project

1133
00:46:49,580 --> 00:46:47,400
Bluebook files we have high next

1134
00:46:53,050 --> 00:46:49,590
statement that they went somewhere else

1135
00:46:55,910 --> 00:46:53,060
and we had Bolander statement in 1969

1136
00:46:57,830 --> 00:46:55,920
about cases going that were not part of

1137
00:46:59,870 --> 00:46:57,840
the Blue Book system we know about

1138
00:47:03,020 --> 00:46:59,880
project moon dust for example and I

1139
00:47:04,460 --> 00:47:03,030
found four cases in the project blue

1140
00:47:06,230 --> 00:47:04,470
book files labeled moon dust they are

1141
00:47:07,490 --> 00:47:06,240
all in September of 1960 and I was

1142
00:47:09,830 --> 00:47:07,500
looking for something else I was

1143
00:47:12,260 --> 00:47:09,840
scanning the microfilm and I thought I

1144
00:47:14,030 --> 00:47:12,270
saw the words moon dust go by so I went

1145
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:14,040
back and looked and I found four cases

1146
00:47:18,710 --> 00:47:16,170
that were labeled moon dust so a we know

1147
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:18,720
there was a UFO community component to

1148
00:47:22,670 --> 00:47:20,130
Moon to us we know his communication

1149
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:22,680
between Blue Book and moon dust the four

1150
00:47:26,270 --> 00:47:24,330
cases were crappy cases you know the

1151
00:47:28,430 --> 00:47:26,280
sighting was like a minute I'm sorry a

1152
00:47:31,670 --> 00:47:28,440
second second and a half and probably

1153
00:47:33,410 --> 00:47:31,680
were meteoric in origin but the point is

1154
00:47:35,660 --> 00:47:33,420
the cases made it in the blue books

1155
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:35,670
file but there's a lot of other cases we

1156
00:47:42,079 --> 00:47:39,770
now know about that generated moon dust

1157
00:47:44,210 --> 00:47:42,089
traffic that didn't make it into the

1158
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:44,220
Project Blue Book file so yeah we can

1159
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:45,810
answer that question the positive sure

1160
00:47:49,490 --> 00:47:47,010
there's a lot of stuff that didn't make

1161
00:47:51,470 --> 00:47:49,500
it to the files and we know this okay so

1162
00:47:53,720 --> 00:47:51,480
let's uh we're going to be going to

1163
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:53,730
break in in a couple of minutes here

1164
00:47:58,250 --> 00:47:57,330
about four minutes or so but let's let's

1165
00:48:00,859 --> 00:47:58,260
address

1166
00:48:04,190 --> 00:48:00,869
I saw your blog or a read your blog I

1167
00:48:08,660 --> 00:48:04,200
had a guest on the show dr. Bob Gross

1168
00:48:12,620 --> 00:48:08,670
talked about his theories of Roswell and

1169
00:48:15,220 --> 00:48:12,630
just wanted to wanted to catch your side

1170
00:48:18,170 --> 00:48:15,230
on what you thought about his theory

1171
00:48:20,030 --> 00:48:18,180
well it was an interesting theory and I

1172
00:48:21,829 --> 00:48:20,040
apparently done a lot of research but we

1173
00:48:24,170 --> 00:48:21,839
haven't seen that research we've seen

1174
00:48:26,810 --> 00:48:24,180
his conclusions based on that research

1175
00:48:29,750 --> 00:48:26,820
and until we can see the documentation

1176
00:48:32,060 --> 00:48:29,760
we have to we have questions we we need

1177
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:32,070
to ask and one of them was his

1178
00:48:38,420 --> 00:48:35,810
suggestion that this sat alone was

1179
00:48:39,470 --> 00:48:38,430
embedded in a mogul mogul flight mogul

1180
00:48:41,089 --> 00:48:39,480
flight number four but there's

1181
00:48:43,670 --> 00:48:41,099
absolutely nothing in the mogul

1182
00:48:45,740 --> 00:48:43,680
documentation to suggest that in flight

1183
00:48:48,770 --> 00:48:45,750
number four we know was canceled we have

1184
00:48:49,100 --> 00:48:48,780
the documentation dr. Kerry Albert Crary

1185
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:49,110
who

1186
00:48:57,380 --> 00:48:53,370
was the leader of the blue launchings

1187
00:48:59,540 --> 00:48:57,390
the Mogul launchings in Alamogordo and I

1188
00:49:00,920 --> 00:48:59,550
hesitate to say mogul launchings because

1189
00:49:02,450 --> 00:49:00,930
a number of the people who are involved

1190
00:49:04,850 --> 00:49:02,460
I said well it really wasn't project

1191
00:49:08,390 --> 00:49:04,860
mogul we were doing there it was the New

1192
00:49:10,130 --> 00:49:08,400
York University balloon investigation we

1193
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:10,140
were doing but its ultimate purpose was

1194
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:13,050
to create a constant level balloon that

1195
00:49:20,300 --> 00:49:16,970
would allow us to spy on the Soviets in

1196
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:20,310
their atomic testing but and and Moghuls

1197
00:49:23,090 --> 00:49:21,810
mentioned in Kerry's diary a number of

1198
00:49:25,010 --> 00:49:23,100
times so they were interacting with

1199
00:49:26,420 --> 00:49:25,020
mogul but there's nothing in the

1200
00:49:28,790 --> 00:49:26,430
documentation to suggest they had

1201
00:49:30,830 --> 00:49:28,800
invented one of these statins in any of

1202
00:49:32,930 --> 00:49:30,840
the flights and flight number four

1203
00:49:35,750 --> 00:49:32,940
coordinate career dyary was cancelled so

1204
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:35,760
the the mogul flight that has been

1205
00:49:39,710 --> 00:49:38,130
identified as crashing allegedly

1206
00:49:43,490 --> 00:49:39,720
clashing crashing on the foster ranch

1207
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:43,500
the Brazel ranch never flew and if it

1208
00:49:49,580 --> 00:49:46,290
did didn't it never flew so even if it

1209
00:49:50,810 --> 00:49:49,590
had a Saeta loon appended to it embedded

1210
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:50,820
in it it wouldn't have gotten to the

1211
00:49:56,750 --> 00:49:54,930
Brazel ranch because that that flight

1212
00:49:59,990 --> 00:49:56,760
never went so you have to look at all of

1213
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:00,000
this and now I know in my limited

1214
00:50:06,020 --> 00:50:03,930
discussions with him that he says I have

1215
00:50:07,370 --> 00:50:06,030
the documentation and I will present it

1216
00:50:09,350 --> 00:50:07,380
in my books and now we're back to the

1217
00:50:13,190 --> 00:50:09,360
proprietary information and I understand

1218
00:50:14,510 --> 00:50:13,200
his point of view wanting to expose that

1219
00:50:16,580 --> 00:50:14,520
information or publish that information

1220
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:16,590
himself in his book rather than handing

1221
00:50:21,290 --> 00:50:19,290
it out to all US researchers who demand

1222
00:50:24,910 --> 00:50:21,300
the the information right now so until

1223
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:24,920
we can see the evidence you know my

1224
00:50:29,510 --> 00:50:27,330
conclusion is you know it's an

1225
00:50:31,070 --> 00:50:29,520
interesting theory but I don't think ya

1226
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:31,080
hesitate to say it this way I don't

1227
00:50:41,990 --> 00:50:38,370
think it's gonna fly but we have to look

1228
00:50:43,700 --> 00:50:42,000
at what evidence he has to prove it

1229
00:50:45,350 --> 00:50:43,710
prove it to us and he says he's got the

1230
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:45,360
information so I'm waiting to see that

1231
00:50:49,730 --> 00:50:47,610
information I'm wondering if any of

1232
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:49,740
those statins you know how a lot of

1233
00:50:53,660 --> 00:50:51,450
times they'll have they'll have like

1234
00:50:56,540 --> 00:50:53,670
surplus of something stored somewhere

1235
00:50:59,480 --> 00:50:56,550
you know I mean there's so many vast

1236
00:51:00,800 --> 00:50:59,490
storerooms I'm sure with you know old

1237
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:00,810
weapons and things like that I'm

1238
00:51:04,540 --> 00:51:01,490
wondering if

1239
00:51:07,089 --> 00:51:04,550
there's actually a saddle on that the

1240
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:07,099
preserve still that actually is tucked

1241
00:51:13,569 --> 00:51:12,410
away somewhere well actually you're

1242
00:51:16,809 --> 00:51:13,579
funny you should say that because one of

1243
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:16,819
the raehwan targets and balloons that

1244
00:51:22,299 --> 00:51:20,690
was exposed in the 1947 around the

1245
00:51:25,839 --> 00:51:22,309
Roswell time was actually found in a

1246
00:51:27,940 --> 00:51:25,849
barn but or stored in a barn but but you

1247
00:51:29,980 --> 00:51:27,950
know since it was I guess done sort of

1248
00:51:32,260 --> 00:51:29,990
under government auspices and that sort

1249
00:51:34,210 --> 00:51:32,270
of thing you might it might be stored

1250
00:51:35,500 --> 00:51:34,220
away somewhere and somebody's back room

1251
00:51:39,819 --> 00:51:35,510
that they ass haven't cleaned it out

1252
00:51:42,010 --> 00:51:39,829
yeah found in a file box Hey that time

1253
00:51:44,950 --> 00:51:42,020
for us to go into a break are this our

1254
00:51:47,859 --> 00:51:44,960
second and last break of the show so

1255
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:47,869
you're listening to podcast UFO on kgr a

1256
00:51:50,890 --> 00:51:48,650
radio

1257
00:51:56,010 --> 00:51:50,900
my guest is Kevin Randle and we'll be

1258
00:52:02,349 --> 00:51:59,380
all right gentlemen good segment we've

1259
00:52:05,020 --> 00:52:02,359
got one two three full minutes in this

1260
00:52:07,750 --> 00:52:05,030
break plus a few seconds of bumper on

1261
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:07,760
this and on the back sides okay thank

1262
00:52:12,490 --> 00:52:10,490
you we're all set all right so we'll

1263
00:52:15,030 --> 00:52:12,500
have to remember we were at that and

1264
00:52:18,039 --> 00:52:15,040
then we'll jump right into the Socorro

1265
00:52:20,079 --> 00:52:18,049
Socorro in your book and all that right

1266
00:52:21,819 --> 00:52:20,089
after that well if you want to talk a

1267
00:52:23,710 --> 00:52:21,829
little bit about Roswell that's fine too

1268
00:52:25,150 --> 00:52:23,720
I mean you know we just had the Roswell

1269
00:52:27,579 --> 00:52:25,160
festival and all of that sort of thing

1270
00:52:29,049 --> 00:52:27,589
and not you know conversant in both

1271
00:52:31,599 --> 00:52:29,059
those and if you want to talk about the

1272
00:52:33,309 --> 00:52:31,609
man kill kill see the man told case I've

1273
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:33,319
just been learning an awful lot by that

1274
00:52:38,260 --> 00:52:36,890
about that as well because I'd done a

1275
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:38,270
research paper on that that was

1276
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:39,650
peer-reviewed and they sent me some

1277
00:52:42,250 --> 00:52:40,970
suggestions it seemed that every time I

1278
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:42,260
turned around I was finding more

1279
00:52:45,700 --> 00:52:44,210
information that was relevant to the

1280
00:52:48,039 --> 00:52:45,710
Mantell case one of the things I did was

1281
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:48,049
plot the the sightings on a map and

1282
00:52:52,990 --> 00:52:50,210
realized you've got a group of sightings

1283
00:52:55,170 --> 00:52:53,000
in southwestern and Kentucky but you've

1284
00:52:57,970 --> 00:52:55,180
got another groups of sightings east of

1285
00:53:01,150 --> 00:52:57,980
Godman Tower and all of that it's almost

1286
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:01,160
a straight line you know so do you want

1287
00:53:05,049 --> 00:53:03,170
to talk about that during the live radio

1288
00:53:06,789 --> 00:53:05,059
show today

1289
00:53:08,170 --> 00:53:06,799
that's an interesting case if it's the

1290
00:53:10,030 --> 00:53:08,180
one I'm thinking of it's the one where

1291
00:53:12,309 --> 00:53:10,040
he float flew really high and then he

1292
00:53:13,870 --> 00:53:12,319
ended up crashing and then absolutely we

1293
00:53:15,550 --> 00:53:13,880
can talk about sir we can talk about

1294
00:53:17,620 --> 00:53:15,560
that

1295
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:17,630
you know we can talk about whatever you

1296
00:53:22,450 --> 00:53:20,690
wherever you'd like to go about that as

1297
00:53:24,490 --> 00:53:22,460
well I mean it's your show so we can do

1298
00:53:27,340 --> 00:53:24,500
whatever you'd like yeah this I'm just

1299
00:53:31,270 --> 00:53:27,350
very very easy to get along with well

1300
00:53:32,590 --> 00:53:31,280
we've got some people say yeah to two

1301
00:53:36,700 --> 00:53:32,600
and a half minutes so while we're on

1302
00:53:38,650 --> 00:53:36,710
break here just you can tell your shout

1303
00:53:43,090 --> 00:53:38,660
out your website if you would your

1304
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:43,100
blogspot well yes wwq van randall blog

1305
00:53:46,870 --> 00:53:45,050
spot.com and if you type a different

1306
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:46,880
perspective into the year search engine

1307
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:48,770
e you usually get it there and I've

1308
00:53:53,350 --> 00:53:50,690
noticed on some some things if you're

1309
00:53:55,690 --> 00:53:53,360
interested in it when you type them in I

1310
00:53:56,830 --> 00:53:55,700
trend number one on Google you know the

1311
00:53:59,440 --> 00:53:56,840
first thing you come to is something

1312
00:54:01,090 --> 00:53:59,450
that I had written about a specific case

1313
00:54:02,290 --> 00:54:01,100
and I think it's because I sometimes

1314
00:54:05,610 --> 00:54:02,300
explore

1315
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:05,620
obscure cases so mine is the most recent

1316
00:54:09,790 --> 00:54:08,090
example of something like that the other

1317
00:54:11,050 --> 00:54:09,800
thing that's kind of annoying and we

1318
00:54:14,140 --> 00:54:11,060
kind of talked a little bit about Oak

1319
00:54:17,410 --> 00:54:14,150
Island I've noticed that if I've got a

1320
00:54:20,830 --> 00:54:17,420
new posting about Oak Island my traffic

1321
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:20,840
goes up you know it like doubles or

1322
00:54:24,010 --> 00:54:22,490
triples one case it triples if I do

1323
00:54:25,710 --> 00:54:24,020
something on Oak Island so you know I'm

1324
00:54:27,940 --> 00:54:25,720
kind of locked into that because a

1325
00:54:29,410 --> 00:54:27,950
brings traffic to the side but B it's

1326
00:54:32,820 --> 00:54:29,420
also something I'm very interested in

1327
00:54:35,950 --> 00:54:32,830
yeah but it's a but but you know just

1328
00:54:38,140 --> 00:54:35,960
WWE Kevin Randleman blog spot.com it's

1329
00:54:42,460 --> 00:54:38,150
called a different perspective the last

1330
00:54:45,580 --> 00:54:42,470
thing I did was a discussion about the

1331
00:54:48,490 --> 00:54:45,590
announcement down in Roswell about the

1332
00:54:51,220 --> 00:54:48,500
Marcel finding family finding a treasure

1333
00:54:53,260 --> 00:54:51,230
trove of documents from their

1334
00:54:55,720 --> 00:54:53,270
grandfather Jesse Marcel senior and

1335
00:54:57,910 --> 00:54:55,730
they're looking through those and that

1336
00:54:59,920 --> 00:54:57,920
could be a very important find and I did

1337
00:55:02,140 --> 00:54:59,930
a thing on Ruth Barnett because I said

1338
00:55:03,970 --> 00:55:02,150
well you know we've looked for journals

1339
00:55:05,860 --> 00:55:03,980
and letters or anything from that time

1340
00:55:07,660 --> 00:55:05,870
frame and we just can't find him and

1341
00:55:09,670 --> 00:55:07,670
then I said oh yeah wait a minute the

1342
00:55:13,030 --> 00:55:09,680
Ruth Barnett diary did surface a number

1343
00:55:14,830 --> 00:55:13,040
above 20 years ago and about the plains

1344
00:55:16,330 --> 00:55:14,840
of san agustin crash and Barney

1345
00:55:18,010 --> 00:55:16,340
Barnett's involvement in that and I

1346
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:18,020
think that was a you know that was an

1347
00:55:20,950 --> 00:55:19,490
important find it didn't do us any good

1348
00:55:25,030 --> 00:55:20,960
because there's no mention of it in the

1349
00:55:26,890 --> 00:55:25,040
diary but and and I I think there would

1350
00:55:28,550 --> 00:55:26,900
have been had that had Bonnie Barnett

1351
00:55:30,860 --> 00:55:28,560
been there in 1947 I

1352
00:55:33,140 --> 00:55:30,870
if he was involved in a sighting of a

1353
00:55:34,910 --> 00:55:33,150
crashed UFO was in 1947 Oh sometime

1354
00:55:37,100 --> 00:55:34,920
later but that's another argument for

1355
00:55:39,220 --> 00:55:37,110
another another time I think we got just

1356
00:55:41,870 --> 00:55:39,230
about a minute left

1357
00:55:43,670 --> 00:55:41,880
so we're actually we're actually we're

1358
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:43,680
ready to go oh okay that's fine I'm

1359
00:55:54,310 --> 00:55:52,130
ready okay just a second to get you here

1360
00:55:58,670 --> 00:55:54,320
[Music]

1361
00:56:00,950 --> 00:55:58,680
all right all right gang here we go

1362
00:56:07,100 --> 00:56:00,960
non-stop until the close of the show in

1363
00:56:11,540 --> 00:56:07,110
five four three two welcome back to

1364
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:11,550
podcast UFO on kg are a radio a Martin

1365
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:14,810
Willison my guest is Kevin Randall and I

1366
00:56:20,270 --> 00:56:16,890
think we can remember what we're talking

1367
00:56:20,900 --> 00:56:20,280
about before the break so we talked

1368
00:56:23,450 --> 00:56:20,910
about that

1369
00:56:25,700 --> 00:56:23,460
thus a balloon and whether they get

1370
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:25,710
stored away somewhere someone will find

1371
00:56:31,070 --> 00:56:29,850
a dusty old tarp and a canvas tarp and a

1372
00:56:33,350 --> 00:56:31,080
barn and lift it off and there's a

1373
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:33,360
saddle in sitting there but we really

1374
00:56:38,690 --> 00:56:34,650
know what the saddle ins look like

1375
00:56:39,950 --> 00:56:38,700
because that the echo 1 and echo 2 for

1376
00:56:42,110 --> 00:56:39,960
those of you old enough remember the

1377
00:56:45,500 --> 00:56:42,120
communication satellite so so those were

1378
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:45,510
basically saddle owns so you know we

1379
00:56:47,810 --> 00:56:46,410
know they're out there where there's

1380
00:56:49,250 --> 00:56:47,820
pictures of them and all of that sort of

1381
00:56:50,690 --> 00:56:49,260
things so we're not lost and that sort

1382
00:56:54,350 --> 00:56:50,700
of thing the only the only thing I'm

1383
00:56:56,300 --> 00:56:54,360
saying is I have seen no documentation

1384
00:56:58,340 --> 00:56:56,310
that suggests saddle loons were part of

1385
00:57:00,470 --> 00:56:58,350
a mogul array or anything like that or

1386
00:57:02,300 --> 00:57:00,480
they were testing them in New Mexico in

1387
00:57:06,500 --> 00:57:02,310
1947 that would have scattered the

1388
00:57:09,170 --> 00:57:06,510
debris on the foster razzle ranch but as

1389
00:57:11,510 --> 00:57:09,180
I said you know dr. gross said that he

1390
00:57:12,860 --> 00:57:11,520
had that documentation and that evidence

1391
00:57:15,860 --> 00:57:12,870
and until we see that you know that's

1392
00:57:18,410 --> 00:57:15,870
kind of where we are I'm skeptical and I

1393
00:57:19,670 --> 00:57:18,420
think you know skepticism is proper if

1394
00:57:22,310 --> 00:57:19,680
you're if you're offering a theory about

1395
00:57:24,230 --> 00:57:22,320
a UFO sighting its proper to be

1396
00:57:26,900 --> 00:57:24,240
skeptical if you're saying you've seen a

1397
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:26,910
UFO it's proper to be skeptical you know

1398
00:57:30,530 --> 00:57:29,010
we want to one ask the proper questions

1399
00:57:32,330 --> 00:57:30,540
and get the proper information so we can

1400
00:57:33,650 --> 00:57:32,340
make a proper determination about

1401
00:57:35,690 --> 00:57:33,660
exactly what had happened or what was

1402
00:57:38,990 --> 00:57:35,700
going on was there anything else about

1403
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:39,000
his theory that seems weak to you or did

1404
00:57:43,010 --> 00:57:40,530
you think that other things kind of made

1405
00:57:45,570 --> 00:57:43,020
sense in any type of way

1406
00:57:49,290 --> 00:57:45,580
it seemed to me that he had not

1407
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:49,300
addressed the material that bill Brazel

1408
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:51,130
talked about specifically fiber-optic

1409
00:57:56,010 --> 00:57:53,770
tag material and the balsa wood like

1410
00:57:57,650 --> 00:57:56,020
material that Bill Brazil had said was

1411
00:58:00,030 --> 00:57:57,660
so tough that he couldn't even get a

1412
00:58:01,650 --> 00:58:00,040
shaving on it with his pocketknife when

1413
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:01,660
he tried to do that and doesn't seem to

1414
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:05,530
me that he addressed that but you know

1415
00:58:09,510 --> 00:58:07,330
over those kind of components would they

1416
00:58:11,370 --> 00:58:09,520
had been involved with fiber optics at

1417
00:58:13,740 --> 00:58:11,380
that time you know we've got a we've got

1418
00:58:16,170 --> 00:58:13,750
to just wait and see what he has in the

1419
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:16,180
way of evidence and as I say you know I

1420
00:58:23,190 --> 00:58:19,690
understand his wanting to withhold all

1421
00:58:25,650 --> 00:58:23,200
the exciting details to make his book

1422
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:25,660
more exciting and more interesting for

1423
00:58:30,540 --> 00:58:27,730
the rest of us but we all have to look

1424
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:30,550
at at it from a skeptical standpoint and

1425
00:58:35,609 --> 00:58:33,490
right now you know SATA lune is just one

1426
00:58:39,630 --> 00:58:35,619
more of a theory that has been thrown

1427
00:58:41,940 --> 00:58:39,640
out like project mogul and the v2

1428
00:58:45,570 --> 00:58:41,950
rockets and the balloon bombs John keels

1429
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:45,580
balloon bombs from 1991 and all the

1430
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:47,650
various other theories to explain it

1431
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:50,850
from my point of view right now we have

1432
00:58:57,960 --> 00:58:54,010
nothing to explain it's Blaine Roswell

1433
00:58:59,430 --> 00:58:57,970
in terrestrial terms and and that

1434
00:59:00,810 --> 00:58:59,440
doesn't take us directly to the

1435
00:59:04,020 --> 00:59:00,820
extra-terrestrial it just means we

1436
00:59:05,940 --> 00:59:04,030
haven't found the answer in trust in a

1437
00:59:10,050 --> 00:59:05,950
terrestrial environment if such an

1438
00:59:12,540 --> 00:59:10,060
answer exists this is one more I guess

1439
00:59:15,450 --> 00:59:12,550
terrestrial suggestion about what really

1440
00:59:19,020 --> 00:59:15,460
was found on the Brazel ranch of why Mac

1441
00:59:20,550 --> 00:59:19,030
Brazel was a little bit puzzled by what

1442
00:59:22,109 --> 00:59:20,560
he had found but then we also have to

1443
00:59:24,359 --> 00:59:22,119
look at it that the sheriff was puzzled

1444
00:59:26,940 --> 00:59:24,369
and the people at Roswell were puzzled

1445
00:59:28,500 --> 00:59:26,950
by it and we look at the documentation

1446
00:59:30,570 --> 00:59:28,510
from mogul because he said it was part

1447
00:59:32,730 --> 00:59:30,580
of a mogul array and and we see no

1448
00:59:34,290 --> 00:59:32,740
evidence of that and again you know if

1449
00:59:35,700 --> 00:59:34,300
he's got the evidence we need to see

1450
00:59:37,890 --> 00:59:35,710
that so I you know I'm kind of

1451
00:59:40,830 --> 00:59:37,900
withholding judgment on this until I see

1452
00:59:44,130 --> 00:59:40,840
what he has in the way of documentation

1453
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:44,140
and evidence but from what I know based

1454
00:59:46,590 --> 00:59:45,850
on the documentation I have seen that

1455
00:59:48,060 --> 00:59:46,600
this attitude

1456
00:59:50,940 --> 00:59:48,070
was not embedded in the mobile flights

1457
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:50,950
that was not part of the mogul prospect

1458
00:59:54,330 --> 00:59:52,930
and and since mogul you know and if that

1459
00:59:55,620 --> 00:59:54,340
was the other thing he said he he

1460
00:59:57,779 --> 00:59:55,630
repeated

1461
01:00:00,720 --> 00:59:57,789
in his paper that the mogul was top

1462
01:00:02,190 --> 01:00:00,730
secret and mogul may well have been top

1463
01:00:04,140 --> 01:00:02,200
secret but what was going on in New

1464
01:00:06,180 --> 01:00:04,150
Mexico with the with the launches of the

1465
01:00:08,009 --> 01:00:06,190
balloons was not top secret it was

1466
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:08,019
published in the newspaper on July 10th

1467
01:00:10,529 --> 01:00:09,250
you know here's a picture of the array

1468
01:00:12,779 --> 01:00:10,539
here's a picture I was launching the

1469
01:00:15,390 --> 01:00:12,789
balloons here's the I remember Charles

1470
01:00:17,130 --> 01:00:15,400
Moore telling me that the the ladder in

1471
01:00:19,740 --> 01:00:17,140
one of the photographs is one that he

1472
01:00:22,980 --> 01:00:19,750
bought was petty cash and in Alamogordo

1473
01:00:26,130 --> 01:00:22,990
so I mean you know there was there was

1474
01:00:28,470 --> 01:00:26,140
mogul exposed in the newspaper at that

1475
01:00:29,819 --> 01:00:28,480
time Charles Moore on the other hand

1476
01:00:31,740 --> 01:00:29,829
said that they didn't know the name of

1477
01:00:33,990 --> 01:00:31,750
mogul at the time because it was

1478
01:00:35,819 --> 01:00:34,000
classified but in fact queries diary

1479
01:00:37,559 --> 01:00:35,829
mentions it at least three times that I

1480
01:00:39,809 --> 01:00:37,569
found and I after finding it three times

1481
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:39,819
I stopped looking you know he talked he

1482
01:00:45,210 --> 01:00:41,410
talks about the mobile equipment has

1483
01:00:50,579 --> 01:00:45,220
arrived you know so you know that sort

1484
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:50,589
of thing so you know if SATA loons were

1485
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:51,970
involved I would expect something in

1486
01:00:56,730 --> 01:00:53,410
Carrara diary and I haven't found

1487
01:00:58,109 --> 01:00:56,740
anything in that so you know we just we

1488
01:00:59,819 --> 01:00:58,119
look at all of that sort of thing and we

1489
01:01:01,499 --> 01:00:59,829
have to all put that in a proper

1490
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:01,509
perspective as opposed to a different

1491
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:04,210
perspective when we're looking when

1492
01:01:07,380 --> 01:01:05,410
we're looking at that sort of thing and

1493
01:01:10,380 --> 01:01:07,390
wait wait to see what evidence is

1494
01:01:12,749 --> 01:01:10,390
presented to us that will be interesting

1495
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:12,759
to see what he has booked actually comes

1496
01:01:17,039 --> 01:01:15,490
out you know whether whether there is

1497
01:01:19,650 --> 01:01:17,049
actually an explanation one of the

1498
01:01:22,980 --> 01:01:19,660
things that's and by the way at the top

1499
01:01:24,690 --> 01:01:22,990
starting now or when we came back on and

1500
01:01:26,430 --> 01:01:24,700
meant to mention that we will be

1501
01:01:28,740 --> 01:01:26,440
accepting calls if people would like to

1502
01:01:31,499 --> 01:01:28,750
call in and that number will be up on

1503
01:01:35,609 --> 01:01:31,509
the YouTube screen and Evan will also

1504
01:01:37,380 --> 01:01:35,619
posts it over on the kgr a radio chat

1505
01:01:39,779 --> 01:01:37,390
room as well over there

1506
01:01:41,430 --> 01:01:39,789
so the one thing that's always can

1507
01:01:43,289 --> 01:01:41,440
couple of things that's always confusing

1508
01:01:44,670 --> 01:01:43,299
I know you listen to the show that I had

1509
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:44,680
with Bob Gross and you probably heard me

1510
01:01:48,809 --> 01:01:47,170
say to him you know why in the first

1511
01:01:50,999 --> 01:01:48,819
place did the Army Air Force even ever

1512
01:01:52,620 --> 01:01:51,009
come out with the you know they all they

1513
01:01:54,390 --> 01:01:52,630
could have had to do is done nothing or

1514
01:01:56,309 --> 01:01:54,400
said nothing instead of saying I found

1515
01:01:58,980 --> 01:01:56,319
the crash disk and I think he had a

1516
01:02:01,499 --> 01:01:58,990
pretty sound a pretty good sounding

1517
01:02:04,410 --> 01:02:01,509
answer for that but have you ever

1518
01:02:07,049 --> 01:02:04,420
thought about that in particular why the

1519
01:02:08,430 --> 01:02:07,059
Army Air Force ever put that thing out

1520
01:02:11,099 --> 01:02:08,440
in the first place

1521
01:02:12,690 --> 01:02:11,109
that has been discussed from the moment

1522
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:12,700
that I got involved in the case why

1523
01:02:17,250 --> 01:02:15,250
would they put out this press release of

1524
01:02:19,170 --> 01:02:17,260
course we've talked about it and we've

1525
01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:19,180
had all kinds of theories about it well

1526
01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:21,250
we're hiding it in plain sight you know

1527
01:02:25,589 --> 01:02:23,050
well we got a flying saucer the lower

1528
01:02:27,270 --> 01:02:25,599
command since we got a flying saucer and

1529
01:02:28,819 --> 01:02:27,280
the higher commands the access a weather

1530
01:02:32,490 --> 01:02:28,829
balloon you don't need to worry about it

1531
01:02:33,809 --> 01:02:32,500
and the reporters you take the more

1532
01:02:35,309 --> 01:02:33,819
credible of the sources the lower

1533
01:02:36,359 --> 01:02:35,319
headquarters not being as credible as

1534
01:02:38,160 --> 01:02:36,369
the higher headquarters

1535
01:02:40,559 --> 01:02:38,170
Colonel Blanchard said we have a weather

1536
01:02:42,510 --> 01:02:40,569
balloon saucer general Raimi's and

1537
01:02:44,370 --> 01:02:42,520
that's a weather balloon here's a here

1538
01:02:46,079 --> 01:02:44,380
it is here's a weather balloon and it's

1539
01:02:47,910 --> 01:02:46,089
a way of hiding the information in plain

1540
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:47,920
sight is one of the ways I'm not sure

1541
01:02:51,599 --> 01:02:49,450
they were that clever too clever enough

1542
01:02:53,220 --> 01:02:51,609
to do that the real question is why they

1543
01:02:55,559 --> 01:02:53,230
even bothered to investigate the thing

1544
01:02:59,069 --> 01:02:55,569
in the 1990s you know why not just let

1545
01:03:01,349 --> 01:02:59,079
let it go so they felt some obligation

1546
01:03:03,540 --> 01:03:01,359
to allegedly set the record straight so

1547
01:03:06,089 --> 01:03:03,550
then the next question is okay they came

1548
01:03:07,530 --> 01:03:06,099
up with a mobile solution solution what

1549
01:03:09,660 --> 01:03:07,540
if it was a sat alone which would have

1550
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:09,670
caught everybody off guard why not

1551
01:03:13,410 --> 01:03:11,290
mention that at that time because they

1552
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:13,420
would have had the information to to to

1553
01:03:19,650 --> 01:03:17,290
release in 1947 1994 I'm sorry that's a

1554
01:03:21,809 --> 01:03:19,660
good that's a good point now here's

1555
01:03:24,690 --> 01:03:21,819
another thing that confused me Kevin and

1556
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:24,700
since you were one of the originals on

1557
01:03:31,349 --> 01:03:29,170
this on the Roswell investigating what

1558
01:03:33,500 --> 01:03:31,359
about when people are saying that they

1559
01:03:37,020 --> 01:03:33,510
found this other of like volkswagen size

1560
01:03:39,089 --> 01:03:37,030
craft so many miles away with possible

1561
01:03:40,559 --> 01:03:39,099
bodies in it what what's the story on

1562
01:03:42,390 --> 01:03:40,569
that what did what did you find out

1563
01:03:46,349 --> 01:03:42,400
about that that's always been confusing

1564
01:03:50,339 --> 01:03:46,359
to me about the Roswell when when Don

1565
01:03:52,230 --> 01:03:50,349
and I started we got in touch with Bill

1566
01:03:54,780 --> 01:03:52,240
Brown a soul who sat down with us which

1567
01:03:57,210 --> 01:03:54,790
was really interesting because he rarely

1568
01:04:00,329 --> 01:03:57,220
would talk to anybody and we were able

1569
01:04:01,770 --> 01:04:00,339
to convince him to talk to us any but he

1570
01:04:04,020 --> 01:04:01,780
was just on the debris field that's all

1571
01:04:06,630 --> 01:04:04,030
he ever saw where the the remnants of

1572
01:04:08,940 --> 01:04:06,640
the debrief and his his father

1573
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:08,950
apparently if the father had seen bodies

1574
01:04:13,349 --> 01:04:11,050
he never mentioned him to bill his

1575
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:13,359
father was very closed mouth and as bill

1576
01:04:15,900 --> 01:04:14,770
said you know if people asked him not to

1577
01:04:20,550 --> 01:04:15,910
talk about something he wouldn't talk

1578
01:04:22,010 --> 01:04:20,560
about it and he would just you know when

1579
01:04:23,900 --> 01:04:22,020
Bill found those little bits of

1580
01:04:25,100 --> 01:04:23,910
Rhian on the debris-filled his father

1581
01:04:27,020 --> 01:04:25,110
would say well that looks like some of

1582
01:04:29,420 --> 01:04:27,030
the contraption I found well contraption

1583
01:04:33,530 --> 01:04:29,430
imply something more than just scattered

1584
01:04:36,140 --> 01:04:33,540
metallic debris but we had heard stories

1585
01:04:37,820 --> 01:04:36,150
of bodies and I think that was one of

1586
01:04:39,710 --> 01:04:37,830
the reasons we got diverted and not we

1587
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:39,720
but but the UFO coming got diverted the

1588
01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:41,010
plains of san agustin because he had

1589
01:04:45,770 --> 01:04:42,930
Barney Barnett talking about seeing a

1590
01:04:49,070 --> 01:04:45,780
craft and bodies and this brought the

1591
01:04:52,010 --> 01:04:49,080
alien aspect into it perfectly because

1592
01:04:55,730 --> 01:04:52,020
these are creatures who were not

1593
01:04:57,550 --> 01:04:55,740
obviously not born on earth and I think

1594
01:05:00,290 --> 01:04:57,560
I think that diverted too much attention

1595
01:05:10,030 --> 01:05:00,300
given what we now know about that aspect

1596
01:05:12,650 --> 01:05:10,040
of it but I think that Proctor III

1597
01:05:14,630 --> 01:05:12,660
Loretta Proctor you know talk to us and

1598
01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:14,640
her son whose name for some reason

1599
01:05:19,970 --> 01:05:17,130
escapes me at the moment D Proctor D

1600
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:19,980
Proctor who is allegedly with Brazil

1601
01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:21,690
when he found the debris and knew what

1602
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:25,170
it was also talked to his mother and a

1603
01:05:32,180 --> 01:05:28,290
couple of others about a craft and body

1604
01:05:34,250 --> 01:05:32,190
somewhere away from the debris field as

1605
01:05:35,870 --> 01:05:34,260
there was some kind of an escape pod or

1606
01:05:37,580 --> 01:05:35,880
something like that or something didn't

1607
01:05:39,610 --> 01:05:37,590
happened in the craft shed debris in one

1608
01:05:42,470 --> 01:05:39,620
spot and came down somewhere else

1609
01:05:46,190 --> 01:05:42,480
something like that so there are hints

1610
01:05:48,410 --> 01:05:46,200
about that Frank Iero talked about what

1611
01:05:51,740 --> 01:05:48,420
her father had seen and I know Karl

1612
01:05:55,010 --> 01:05:51,750
flock kind of debunk that with his book

1613
01:05:56,270 --> 01:05:55,020
Roswell you know inconvenient facts in

1614
01:05:57,800 --> 01:05:56,280
the will to believe when he said well I

1615
01:06:00,260 --> 01:05:57,810
talked to three firefighters and they

1616
01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:00,270
said that nothing happened I talked to

1617
01:06:04,220 --> 01:06:02,730
one of the guys as well and I got the

1618
01:06:06,410 --> 01:06:04,230
same story from him until I asked him a

1619
01:06:08,090 --> 01:06:06,420
specific question I said do you know Dan

1620
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:08,100
Dwyer Frankie Roe's father who was a

1621
01:06:12,110 --> 01:06:10,170
firefighter he so I know Dan yeah he

1622
01:06:14,150 --> 01:06:12,120
went out there on his own in his private

1623
01:06:15,380 --> 01:06:14,160
car I'm thinking well that's why we

1624
01:06:16,910 --> 01:06:15,390
couldn't find any record in the fire

1625
01:06:20,420 --> 01:06:16,920
department because Dan Dreyer didn't go

1626
01:06:22,940 --> 01:06:20,430
out on a fire truck but her father

1627
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:22,950
talked about seeing a craft and bodies

1628
01:06:27,950 --> 01:06:25,490
little little creatures with that

1629
01:06:30,620 --> 01:06:27,960
secondhand testimony granted you know

1630
01:06:33,050 --> 01:06:30,630
granted but but there are aspects of

1631
01:06:35,870 --> 01:06:33,060
that and the one firefighter said yeah

1632
01:06:37,370 --> 01:06:35,880
the he said a colonel came to us

1633
01:06:38,779 --> 01:06:37,380
in the fire department I think why is it

1634
01:06:40,700 --> 01:06:38,789
always a colonel why isn't it never

1635
01:06:41,509 --> 01:06:40,710
acting or a lieutenant why is it always

1636
01:06:43,700 --> 01:06:41,519
a colonel

1637
01:06:45,140 --> 01:06:43,710
anyway this colonel came to talk to us

1638
01:06:46,489 --> 01:06:45,150
and said you guys don't need to go out

1639
01:06:48,109 --> 01:06:46,499
there we got it under control

1640
01:06:50,870 --> 01:06:48,119
he said and then then Dan went out in

1641
01:06:52,190 --> 01:06:50,880
his private car and came back and talked

1642
01:06:54,140 --> 01:06:52,200
a little bit about it so we got some

1643
01:06:55,700 --> 01:06:54,150
cooperation from Frank Iero story but

1644
01:06:57,920 --> 01:06:55,710
again it's all secondhand the guy didn't

1645
01:07:01,160 --> 01:06:57,930
go out and didn't see it himself so we

1646
01:07:03,109 --> 01:07:01,170
have some of that information and if

1647
01:07:05,269 --> 01:07:03,119
you're looking at it from a strictly

1648
01:07:06,829 --> 01:07:05,279
investigative point of view or a

1649
01:07:09,950 --> 01:07:06,839
scientific point of view for that matter

1650
01:07:11,749 --> 01:07:09,960
the evidence is very shaky about the

1651
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:11,759
extra-terrestrial aspects of it it's

1652
01:07:16,729 --> 01:07:15,210
there but it's not the kind of thing

1653
01:07:18,769 --> 01:07:16,739
that we would like what we'd like is a

1654
01:07:19,969 --> 01:07:18,779
document from the government analyzing

1655
01:07:22,370 --> 01:07:19,979
the metal and saying this couldn't

1656
01:07:24,349 --> 01:07:22,380
bother simply have been made on earth or

1657
01:07:26,989 --> 01:07:24,359
have some characteristic that we now

1658
01:07:28,940 --> 01:07:26,999
understand that they didn't understand

1659
01:07:30,410 --> 01:07:28,950
in 1947 so somebody could have faked

1660
01:07:32,299 --> 01:07:30,420
that sort of thing you know or here

1661
01:07:34,309 --> 01:07:32,309
pictures of the body something like that

1662
01:07:36,710 --> 01:07:34,319
that comes from a source everything that

1663
01:07:39,410 --> 01:07:36,720
we've gotten from the government and

1664
01:07:41,509 --> 01:07:39,420
it's very limited doesn't provide us

1665
01:07:44,390 --> 01:07:41,519
with those kinds of things mj-12 is

1666
01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:44,400
clearly a hoax and I'm going to catch

1667
01:07:48,769 --> 01:07:45,930
all kinds of Hell for saying that but

1668
01:07:53,059 --> 01:07:48,779
clearly clearly it's a hoax there's

1669
01:07:55,190 --> 01:07:53,069
there's a fatal flaw in it and that's

1670
01:07:57,259 --> 01:07:55,200
the Del Rio UFO crash which was made up

1671
01:07:58,729 --> 01:07:57,269
by a guy named Robert Willingham who

1672
01:08:00,140 --> 01:07:58,739
claimed to be a fighter pilot Air Force

1673
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:00,150
fighter pilot and has no evidence that

1674
01:08:04,430 --> 01:08:01,890
he was ever in the Air Force let alone a

1675
01:08:07,910 --> 01:08:04,440
fighter planet so that was included in

1676
01:08:09,859 --> 01:08:07,920
the mj-12 documents there is a about the

1677
01:08:12,559 --> 01:08:09,869
crash at El Indio

1678
01:08:14,870 --> 01:08:12,569
Guerrero I was agrerro in lndia l

1679
01:08:17,990 --> 01:08:14,880
Guerrero and El Indio which is the del

1680
01:08:21,039 --> 01:08:18,000
Rio crash and at the time that the

1681
01:08:27,379 --> 01:08:21,049
documents created in 1994 by Bill Moore

1682
01:08:28,970 --> 01:08:27,389
by whoever it was whoever it was and we

1683
01:08:33,229 --> 01:08:28,980
can trace it to Bill Moore no further by

1684
01:08:35,300 --> 01:08:33,239
the way but they believed the Willingham

1685
01:08:37,070 --> 01:08:35,310
testimony as did I at the time and I

1686
01:08:40,099 --> 01:08:37,080
think that I did a book called the

1687
01:08:42,620 --> 01:08:40,109
history of UFO crashes in the mid-1990s

1688
01:08:44,030 --> 01:08:42,630
and Willingham's affidavit in there and

1689
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:44,040
we thought he was an Air Force colonel

1690
01:08:47,300 --> 01:08:45,810
I thought others had checked him out I

1691
01:08:49,129 --> 01:08:47,310
thought nobody had ever checked out his

1692
01:08:49,550 --> 01:08:49,139
credentials so I finally went to st.

1693
01:08:51,950 --> 01:08:49,560
Louis

1694
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:51,960
found out that he'd spent 13 months in

1695
01:08:56,600 --> 01:08:55,050
the army was technically a veteran of

1696
01:09:01,340 --> 01:08:56,610
World War two and I say technically

1697
01:09:04,070 --> 01:09:01,350
because he joined the Army in December

1698
01:09:05,750 --> 01:09:04,080
of 1945 all the shooting was over but

1699
01:09:08,930 --> 01:09:05,760
the war wasn't declared officially over

1700
01:09:11,780 --> 01:09:08,940
until 1946 so he's technically a veteran

1701
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:11,790
of World War two he spent 13 months in

1702
01:09:17,150 --> 01:09:14,250
the in the army and was discharged as an

1703
01:09:18,710 --> 01:09:17,160
e4 and he then came up I'll and he went

1704
01:09:20,540 --> 01:09:18,720
into the Air Force or the National Guard

1705
01:09:22,670 --> 01:09:20,550
or something and he was a pilot in that

1706
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:22,680
and he went to Korea and all of this

1707
01:09:26,510 --> 01:09:24,090
other nonsense but the records don't

1708
01:09:29,710 --> 01:09:26,520
reflect that nobody had ever checked him

1709
01:09:32,060 --> 01:09:29,720
out and he presented documentation

1710
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:32,070
pictures of him in a uniform and that

1711
01:09:35,390 --> 01:09:33,690
and and I've discussed this on my blog

1712
01:09:36,830 --> 01:09:35,400
so you can you can look up Robert

1713
01:09:38,870 --> 01:09:36,840
Willingham and it just came up again

1714
01:09:40,610 --> 01:09:38,880
recently but if it's well here's a

1715
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:40,620
picture of him in the 1960s in an Air

1716
01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:42,210
Force uniform and I said well if you

1717
01:09:46,460 --> 01:09:44,970
took a look at the picture carefully you

1718
01:09:49,130 --> 01:09:46,470
discover he's in a Civil Air Patrol

1719
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:49,140
uniform instead of c.a.p on his collar

1720
01:09:53,360 --> 01:09:51,570
and he's the metal plaque the little

1721
01:09:54,950 --> 01:09:53,370
metal pin that you wore on your capn

1722
01:09:56,450 --> 01:09:54,960
over him it says you know Civil Air

1723
01:09:57,530 --> 01:09:56,460
Patrol official artillery of the Air

1724
01:09:59,330 --> 01:09:57,540
Force is something that effect

1725
01:10:02,050 --> 01:09:59,340
identifying you as a member of the Civil

1726
01:10:05,180 --> 01:10:02,060
Air Patrol Civil Air Patrol provides a

1727
01:10:06,830 --> 01:10:05,190
number of legitimate and important

1728
01:10:08,660 --> 01:10:06,840
functions take some of the

1729
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:08,670
search-and-rescue away from the from the

1730
01:10:12,710 --> 01:10:10,890
military it's you know of all voluntary

1731
01:10:14,810 --> 01:10:12,720
organization it's an axillary of the Air

1732
01:10:16,700 --> 01:10:14,820
Force you receive no retirement points

1733
01:10:18,950 --> 01:10:16,710
for participating you don't get paid for

1734
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:18,960
it although they reimburse you if you're

1735
01:10:24,470 --> 01:10:21,690
on a mission what they called a red cap

1736
01:10:26,390 --> 01:10:24,480
a real search-and-rescue mission the

1737
01:10:28,550 --> 01:10:26,400
government were impatient reimburse you

1738
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:28,560
for the gas and things that you burn up

1739
01:10:33,500 --> 01:10:31,530
in the in the search-and-rescue area but

1740
01:10:35,540 --> 01:10:33,510
it's not part of the Air Force and

1741
01:10:37,220 --> 01:10:35,550
there's additional pictures of him but

1742
01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:37,230
it's clearly a Civil Air Patrol uniform

1743
01:10:42,050 --> 01:10:39,570
and he has tried to co-opt the Civil Air

1744
01:10:44,330 --> 01:10:42,060
Patrol experience into being an Air

1745
01:10:47,480 --> 01:10:44,340
Force pilot the other thing that I

1746
01:10:51,650 --> 01:10:47,490
noticed is he was wearing uh he had

1747
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:51,660
gotten a private pilot's license and the

1748
01:10:54,650 --> 01:10:53,250
FAA used to used to give us that

1749
01:10:59,150 --> 01:10:54,660
information they don't anymore and

1750
01:11:01,970 --> 01:10:59,160
because of all the problems with an

1751
01:11:03,609 --> 01:11:01,980
identity theft when my experience was

1752
01:11:06,919 --> 01:11:03,619
every military pilot

1753
01:11:08,240 --> 01:11:06,929
who had got an FAA certification always

1754
01:11:12,020 --> 01:11:08,250
got at least a commercial pilot's

1755
01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:12,030
license and as a military pilot the FAA

1756
01:11:16,250 --> 01:11:13,650
believed that the flight school and the

1757
01:11:19,729 --> 01:11:16,260
training you had was sufficient to meet

1758
01:11:22,009 --> 01:11:19,739
the requirements for a commercial

1759
01:11:23,959 --> 01:11:22,019
pilot's license all you had to do was

1760
01:11:26,509 --> 01:11:23,969
take a test a 50 question test on

1761
01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:26,519
regulations FAA regulations as opposed

1762
01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:28,170
to the air force regulations or the

1763
01:11:32,390 --> 01:11:31,050
military regulations I am as an army

1764
01:11:34,819 --> 01:11:32,400
helicopter pilot when I got back from

1765
01:11:39,649 --> 01:11:34,829
Vietnam I had like 1500 hours of flight

1766
01:11:41,089 --> 01:11:39,659
time I got my FAA commercial pilot's

1767
01:11:44,330 --> 01:11:41,099
license which is why I know this I just

1768
01:11:46,609 --> 01:11:44,340
went to that when you finish flight

1769
01:11:47,899 --> 01:11:46,619
school there were a number of classes

1770
01:11:50,419 --> 01:11:47,909
held then you know here will help you

1771
01:11:52,879 --> 01:11:50,429
pass the test for the FAA regulations if

1772
01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:52,889
you wanted to to take the test then at

1773
01:11:57,109 --> 01:11:55,650
that point very few of us what we're all

1774
01:11:58,580 --> 01:11:57,119
about to go on leave and we didn't want

1775
01:12:00,529 --> 01:11:58,590
to hang around for a couple of days to

1776
01:12:03,459 --> 01:12:00,539
take the FAA test that's why I didn't

1777
01:12:05,959 --> 01:12:03,469
take it till I got back from Vietnam but

1778
01:12:07,459 --> 01:12:05,969
he only had a private pilot's license

1779
01:12:09,830 --> 01:12:07,469
which was another red flag

1780
01:12:11,299 --> 01:12:09,840
no no evidence that he went to flight

1781
01:12:12,770 --> 01:12:11,309
school no evidence that he was an Air

1782
01:12:17,750 --> 01:12:12,780
Force officer no evidence that he was a

1783
01:12:20,120 --> 01:12:17,760
fighter pilot he said that he he got out

1784
01:12:21,799 --> 01:12:20,130
of the Air Force and went into the Air

1785
01:12:23,870 --> 01:12:21,809
Force Reserve because they wouldn't let

1786
01:12:25,939 --> 01:12:23,880
him fly anymore because he was injured

1787
01:12:27,799 --> 01:12:25,949
in Korea and he had back problems well I

1788
01:12:31,270 --> 01:12:27,809
talked to an Air Force pilot about that

1789
01:12:34,520 --> 01:12:31,280
and he said well the problem is the

1790
01:12:36,379 --> 01:12:34,530
forces of ejection and if fighter pilots

1791
01:12:39,290 --> 01:12:36,389
would have to use ejection seats might

1792
01:12:41,779 --> 01:12:39,300
have to use ejection seats prohibit him

1793
01:12:44,390 --> 01:12:41,789
from flying a fighter aircraft but you

1794
01:12:47,209 --> 01:12:44,400
could fly it you could fly cargo planes

1795
01:12:48,950 --> 01:12:47,219
and other yeah other flying jobs

1796
01:12:50,299 --> 01:12:48,960
available to you so his excuse for

1797
01:12:52,790 --> 01:12:50,309
getting out of the Air Force wasn't

1798
01:12:53,839 --> 01:12:52,800
really right either the documentation

1799
01:12:57,259 --> 01:12:53,849
didn't didn't pan out

1800
01:13:00,439 --> 01:12:57,269
the point being he is the sole source on

1801
01:13:03,529 --> 01:13:00,449
the El Indio Guerrero UFO crash just

1802
01:13:06,049 --> 01:13:03,539
over the Mexican border and he had

1803
01:13:07,370 --> 01:13:06,059
Robert zecko know Todd's Eckel who had

1804
01:13:09,319 --> 01:13:07,380
interviewed him a lot had given the

1805
01:13:11,899 --> 01:13:09,329
information to Bill Moore and that

1806
01:13:14,569 --> 01:13:11,909
there's a 1-1 paragraph about that crash

1807
01:13:16,550 --> 01:13:14,579
in the mj-12 document and if that is a

1808
01:13:19,940 --> 01:13:16,560
hoax and all that kind of kind

1809
01:13:21,980 --> 01:13:19,950
eliminates the entire mj-12 document is

1810
01:13:25,940 --> 01:13:21,990
being authentic yeah that's that's kind

1811
01:13:27,710 --> 01:13:25,950
of how I when I do work in my real world

1812
01:13:31,160 --> 01:13:27,720
of fine arts and antiques and things

1813
01:13:34,040 --> 01:13:31,170
like that when something is suspect it

1814
01:13:36,380 --> 01:13:34,050
kind of kills the whole thing and in

1815
01:13:38,180 --> 01:13:36,390
other words also if if you find out if

1816
01:13:41,320 --> 01:13:38,190
you find a false document and a bunch of

1817
01:13:44,780 --> 01:13:41,330
documents or you find even a fake

1818
01:13:46,460 --> 01:13:44,790
painting in a collection you have to you

1819
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:46,470
have to question everything basically

1820
01:13:56,360 --> 01:13:50,810
because that's just the way it goes hey

1821
01:14:02,030 --> 01:13:56,370
we have a we have a Socorro I dare to

1822
01:14:04,970 --> 01:14:02,040
call him a skeptic possibly in the I've

1823
01:14:09,490 --> 01:14:04,980
been seeing some of his chat tweets hang

1824
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:09,500
on just one minute I'm going to okay so

1825
01:14:15,470 --> 01:14:12,810
I just added him whoops

1826
01:14:20,390 --> 01:14:15,480
heaven I'll let you take over sorry

1827
01:14:22,670 --> 01:14:20,400
about that oh there oh yeah hang on just

1828
01:14:26,390 --> 01:14:22,680
a second I think I may have

1829
01:14:30,860 --> 01:14:26,400
inadvertently everybody do not see I

1830
01:14:32,990 --> 01:14:30,870
don't see a question okay in the chat

1831
01:14:35,270 --> 01:14:33,000
there's no no question it's just a lot

1832
01:14:38,120 --> 01:14:35,280
of statements about Socorro and this

1833
01:14:41,480 --> 01:14:38,130
gentleman's from Sweden and he's saying

1834
01:14:52,160 --> 01:14:41,490
that there's articles there that the

1835
01:14:54,140 --> 01:14:52,170
Socorro was was a balloon so so why

1836
01:14:58,010 --> 01:14:54,150
don't you for the person that's unaware

1837
01:14:59,810 --> 01:14:58,020
has never really looked into the Socorro

1838
01:15:01,700 --> 01:14:59,820
case a lot of people have a better

1839
01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:01,710
listening but can you kind of give as

1840
01:15:07,400 --> 01:15:04,050
quick of a nutshell as you possibly can

1841
01:15:09,380 --> 01:15:07,410
on on the case to begin to begin with

1842
01:15:11,390 --> 01:15:09,390
and then we'll go from there please know

1843
01:15:12,830 --> 01:15:11,400
I suggest everybody to go to Amazon and

1844
01:15:14,540 --> 01:15:12,840
buy the book on Kindle then read it

1845
01:15:17,810 --> 01:15:14,550
themselves right now this minute no

1846
01:15:20,090 --> 01:15:17,820
seriously the story is that the police

1847
01:15:22,430 --> 01:15:20,100
officer Lonnie Zamora was on patrol in

1848
01:15:24,350 --> 01:15:22,440
Socorro New Mexico and was chasing a

1849
01:15:27,590 --> 01:15:24,360
speeder I think it's on the southwest

1850
01:15:29,270 --> 01:15:27,600
side of town and heard a roar and I

1851
01:15:29,500 --> 01:15:29,280
thought that a dynamite said that he

1852
01:15:31,990 --> 01:15:29,510
knew

1853
01:15:33,580 --> 01:15:32,000
was shed the distort dynamite over there

1854
01:15:35,169 --> 01:15:33,590
he thought it had blown up so he broke

1855
01:15:38,069 --> 01:15:35,179
off the chase of the speeder and he went

1856
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:38,079
over in that direction he came up over a

1857
01:15:45,399 --> 01:15:40,730
rise and looked down into an arroyo and

1858
01:15:47,220 --> 01:15:45,409
there was this craft egg shaped craft

1859
01:15:49,509 --> 01:15:47,230
sitting on the ground on four four legs

1860
01:15:52,419 --> 01:15:49,519
he lost sight of it for a minute came up

1861
01:15:57,189 --> 01:15:52,429
on another one and saw two beings

1862
01:15:59,709 --> 01:15:57,199
outside it as he tried to get closer to

1863
01:16:01,149 --> 01:15:59,719
it they spotted him in some fashion got

1864
01:16:03,009 --> 01:16:01,159
frightened when it ran around behind the

1865
01:16:04,959 --> 01:16:03,019
craft it was a bang and the thing left

1866
01:16:07,479 --> 01:16:04,969
off lifted off with a roar leaving

1867
01:16:12,399 --> 01:16:07,489
behind a burned area and the landing

1868
01:16:14,259 --> 01:16:12,409
gear impressions on the ground that's it

1869
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:14,269
in a nutshell Lonnie Zamora was a single

1870
01:16:20,830 --> 01:16:19,610
witness to this to this event so you're

1871
01:16:23,770 --> 01:16:20,840
looking at it from that point of view

1872
01:16:29,069 --> 01:16:23,780
now the theory is that a group of oh my

1873
01:16:31,439 --> 01:16:29,079
god that's the wrong symbol a a group of

1874
01:16:34,419 --> 01:16:31,449
the theory is a group of you you

1875
01:16:40,529 --> 01:16:34,429
derailed my train of thought you're not

1876
01:16:44,350 --> 01:16:40,539
supposed to be watching the YouTube a

1877
01:16:46,479 --> 01:16:44,360
group of students from the School of

1878
01:16:49,660 --> 01:16:46,489
Mines there had created this elaborate

1879
01:16:51,100 --> 01:16:49,670
hoax to fool Lonnie Zamora because he

1880
01:16:52,390 --> 01:16:51,110
would give them speeding tickets and

1881
01:16:53,979 --> 01:16:52,400
they don't lead and I guess they didn't

1882
01:16:55,299 --> 01:16:53,989
feel they deserved him I'm I'm always up

1883
01:16:56,770 --> 01:16:55,309
the opinion if you're speeding and you

1884
01:16:59,770 --> 01:16:56,780
get caught then you probably deserve the

1885
01:17:01,569 --> 01:16:59,780
ticket that sort of thing but anyway

1886
01:17:03,850 --> 01:17:01,579
they they created this elaborate hoax

1887
01:17:07,629 --> 01:17:03,860
with some kind of a balloon and that

1888
01:17:10,270 --> 01:17:07,639
sort of thing I'm sorry we're getting

1889
01:17:12,220 --> 01:17:10,280
feedback yes yeah

1890
01:17:15,399 --> 01:17:12,230
and that's that's because I took a call

1891
01:17:17,649 --> 01:17:15,409
so call her sorry Kevin hang on caller

1892
01:17:19,419 --> 01:17:17,659
please try to mute your show if you

1893
01:17:24,160 --> 01:17:19,429
would and we'll get right to you in just

1894
01:17:25,870 --> 01:17:24,170
a second but the idea of being a balloon

1895
01:17:29,529 --> 01:17:25,880
I think has been pretty well debunked

1896
01:17:32,500 --> 01:17:29,539
because there were people on the scene

1897
01:17:34,479 --> 01:17:32,510
within minutes of Zamora calling into

1898
01:17:35,979 --> 01:17:34,489
the police station I think it was two

1899
01:17:37,359 --> 01:17:35,989
two and a half minutes that his friend

1900
01:17:39,430 --> 01:17:37,369
got there there were other people who

1901
01:17:41,379 --> 01:17:39,440
came shortly after there there was no

1902
01:17:43,450 --> 01:17:41,389
evidence of the balloon or anything like

1903
01:17:44,890 --> 01:17:43,460
that the hoaxers have never

1904
01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:44,900
come forward to say yeah we did that

1905
01:17:50,650 --> 01:17:49,010
haha and you guys did the hoax there he

1906
01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:50,660
just doesn't doesn't really hold water

1907
01:17:56,860 --> 01:17:54,530
and I you know I go I go through that

1908
01:17:58,920 --> 01:17:56,870
sort of thing on the blog in great

1909
01:18:01,660 --> 01:17:58,930
detail I also go through it in the book

1910
01:18:07,090 --> 01:18:01,670
about why the balloons explanation

1911
01:18:11,590 --> 01:18:07,100
doesn't work I I use or have credited

1912
01:18:14,820 --> 01:18:11,600
Tony burger a Leo brigade of the hoax

1913
01:18:18,490 --> 01:18:14,830
tour the balloon story and what his

1914
01:18:19,840 --> 01:18:18,500
information is and why it just doesn't

1915
01:18:21,820 --> 01:18:19,850
track with the evidence that we have

1916
01:18:23,200 --> 01:18:21,830
there were three people who had called

1917
01:18:24,520 --> 01:18:23,210
into the police and this is one of the

1918
01:18:28,959 --> 01:18:24,530
important things who had heard the roar

1919
01:18:31,240 --> 01:18:28,969
in the sky the dumb police officer never

1920
01:18:33,580 --> 01:18:31,250
took their names and even though they

1921
01:18:35,200 --> 01:18:33,590
knew that evening about the three phone

1922
01:18:37,030 --> 01:18:35,210
calls nobody ever tried to follow up on

1923
01:18:37,870 --> 01:18:37,040
it which just annoys the hell out of me

1924
01:18:40,390 --> 01:18:37,880
because you could have had at least

1925
01:18:42,070 --> 01:18:40,400
three other witnesses something and that

1926
01:18:43,570 --> 01:18:42,080
sort of things so when we say and that

1927
01:18:46,390 --> 01:18:43,580
was one you know I had mentioned earlier

1928
01:18:47,950 --> 01:18:46,400
that it's single witness well not really

1929
01:18:49,750 --> 01:18:47,960
because there are other witnesses two

1930
01:18:51,490 --> 01:18:49,760
aspects of it and of course you've got

1931
01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:51,500
the landing traces on the ground which

1932
01:18:55,930 --> 01:18:54,290
according to some of the soil testing

1933
01:18:57,880 --> 01:18:55,940
that was done suggested it was something

1934
01:18:59,410 --> 01:18:57,890
that was pressed into the ground as

1935
01:19:02,040 --> 01:18:59,420
opposed to something that was activated

1936
01:19:04,420 --> 01:19:02,050
so so some heavy object had sat on the

1937
01:19:07,660 --> 01:19:04,430
ground in that location so there's

1938
01:19:10,690 --> 01:19:07,670
there's some interesting reasons to

1939
01:19:12,370 --> 01:19:10,700
reject the balloon hypothesis yeah you

1940
01:19:13,780 --> 01:19:12,380
know I definitely think hey so it's not

1941
01:19:15,910 --> 01:19:13,790
Kevin we have a caller on line caller

1942
01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:15,920
your first name and were you calling

1943
01:19:25,240 --> 01:19:22,690
from oh my god I'm in Cedar Rapids Iowa

1944
01:19:27,340 --> 01:19:25,250
yeah wondering Kevin if you still lived

1945
01:19:29,290 --> 01:19:27,350
in Cedar Rapids in a reading your your

1946
01:19:30,370 --> 01:19:29,300
two books on Roswell in that you

1947
01:19:32,229 --> 01:19:30,380
mentioned you were from Cedar Rapids

1948
01:19:35,650 --> 01:19:32,239
well yeah we're we're neighbors so to

1949
01:19:41,470 --> 01:19:35,660
speak yes my question is yeah my

1950
01:19:43,900 --> 01:19:41,480
question is the date April 24th 1964 the

1951
01:19:48,250 --> 01:19:43,910
date of the correlating is also the date

1952
01:19:50,260 --> 01:19:48,260
of alleged Holloman UFO landing so I've

1953
01:19:52,900 --> 01:19:50,270
developed a theory I wonder if the craft

1954
01:19:56,459 --> 01:19:52,910
that landed very very briefly it's a

1955
01:19:58,469 --> 01:19:56,469
Carl then relocated

1956
01:20:00,540 --> 01:19:58,479
Holliman could that possibly been a

1957
01:20:02,549 --> 01:20:00,550
mistake in landing spot they were

1958
01:20:04,770 --> 01:20:02,559
permanently the creature to get out

1959
01:20:06,450 --> 01:20:04,780
quickly realize they were an around the

1960
01:20:09,450 --> 01:20:06,460
craft and got back inside the craft took

1961
01:20:12,689 --> 01:20:09,460
off quickly headed I guess was it

1962
01:20:14,339 --> 01:20:12,699
Southwest towards Holloman I always I

1963
01:20:16,430 --> 01:20:14,349
was guys I always got the impression

1964
01:20:19,350 --> 01:20:16,440
they headed off to the north-northwest

1965
01:20:22,169 --> 01:20:19,360
okay yeah I'm not sure on the map in my

1966
01:20:24,299 --> 01:20:22,179
mind which direction but I just wonder

1967
01:20:27,750 --> 01:20:24,309
if that was for tomorrow saw I was

1968
01:20:30,149 --> 01:20:27,760
mistaken landing that that was a theory

1969
01:20:32,609 --> 01:20:30,159
that had been explored a number of times

1970
01:20:37,439 --> 01:20:32,619
and I believe I talked about that in the

1971
01:20:39,029 --> 01:20:37,449
book you know why the information about

1972
01:20:42,359 --> 01:20:39,039
that and how that all came about I think

1973
01:20:45,089 --> 01:20:42,369
um the Lorenz ins talked about that that

1974
01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:45,099
idea as well and the date is an it isn't

1975
01:20:48,839 --> 01:20:47,530
necessarily April 24th 1964 there's some

1976
01:20:51,299 --> 01:20:48,849
discussion about what the real date

1977
01:20:53,669 --> 01:20:51,309
would have been as well so there there

1978
01:20:55,680 --> 01:20:53,679
are some problems with linking the

1979
01:20:58,290 --> 01:20:55,690
Socorro landing with this story out of

1980
01:21:01,830 --> 01:20:58,300
Holloman Air Force Base in that time

1981
01:21:05,310 --> 01:21:01,840
frame but I do I do explore that I do

1982
01:21:06,989 --> 01:21:05,320
explore that in the book and what Lorenz

1983
01:21:08,279 --> 01:21:06,999
ins had to say about it and some of the

1984
01:21:10,350 --> 01:21:08,289
other people who were involved in that

1985
01:21:13,500 --> 01:21:10,360
aspect of the investigation the Lorenz

1986
01:21:15,509 --> 01:21:13,510
ins got to Socorro so coral landing was

1987
01:21:17,850 --> 01:21:15,519
on a Friday night they were on there on

1988
01:21:19,680 --> 01:21:17,860
a Sunday talking to some more on some of

1989
01:21:21,029 --> 01:21:19,690
the people they had gotten there right

1990
01:21:24,719 --> 01:21:21,039
after the air force appeared on the

1991
01:21:27,870 --> 01:21:24,729
scene and I say the air force from from

1992
01:21:30,629 --> 01:21:27,880
white right field we had an army officer

1993
01:21:32,819 --> 01:21:30,639
there that very night within an hour

1994
01:21:35,100 --> 01:21:32,829
hour and a half 90 minutes of the

1995
01:21:36,930 --> 01:21:35,110
landing and an FBI agent involved as

1996
01:21:39,479 --> 01:21:36,940
well and some of the investigation so

1997
01:21:41,279 --> 01:21:39,489
you yeah all of that is laid out in

1998
01:21:42,750 --> 01:21:41,289
detail in the book and if you don't want

1999
01:21:47,549 --> 01:21:42,760
to buy the book then some of that detail

2000
01:21:50,129 --> 01:21:47,559
is also appears on on my blog at WWF on

2001
01:21:52,620 --> 01:21:50,139
our blog spot.com I use that as a way of

2002
01:22:00,660 --> 01:21:52,630
spring boarding into giving the blogspot

2003
01:22:04,969 --> 01:22:00,670
another another shout out any other do

2004
01:22:10,020 --> 01:22:04,979
you have any thoughts project circle

2005
01:22:10,410 --> 01:22:10,030
yeah I have any politicize I'm it's not

2006
01:22:13,140 --> 01:22:10,420
going to

2007
01:22:23,310 --> 01:22:13,150
a lot of people I think that just really

2008
01:22:26,190 --> 01:22:23,320
cockamamie I I just don't buy into that

2009
01:22:28,410 --> 01:22:26,200
I I'm in my old age I've taken a much

2010
01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:28,420
more conservative view of that I think I

2011
01:22:33,540 --> 01:22:31,690
think uh uh as we all age we begin to be

2012
01:22:37,380 --> 01:22:33,550
get more skeptical on things that we we

2013
01:22:39,030 --> 01:22:37,390
don't have the same sense of same sense

2014
01:22:41,400 --> 01:22:39,040
of wonder that we had in our younger

2015
01:22:45,630 --> 01:22:41,410
years and we and we learn things that

2016
01:22:47,340 --> 01:22:45,640
that I think I guess inhibit her

2017
01:22:48,840 --> 01:22:47,350
acceptance of some of the more crazy

2018
01:22:51,030 --> 01:22:48,850
things in ufology

2019
01:22:53,820 --> 01:22:51,040
or in the world around as we look for

2020
01:22:56,820 --> 01:22:53,830
more documentation and more evidence and

2021
01:22:59,460 --> 01:22:56,830
I just see nothing in that exchange

2022
01:23:04,220 --> 01:22:59,470
program that I find plausible but that's

2023
01:23:08,340 --> 01:23:05,550
all right

2024
01:23:10,080 --> 01:23:08,350
hey thanks for the call so we are we are

2025
01:23:12,540 --> 01:23:10,090
available for calls if anyone like to

2026
01:23:15,900 --> 01:23:12,550
call in and that number is up on the

2027
01:23:18,240 --> 01:23:15,910
screen and I'll just say the number out

2028
01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:18,250
there just keep in mind that this number

2029
01:23:23,550 --> 01:23:20,890
is only live during the show only a lot

2030
01:23:27,900 --> 01:23:23,560
of people call it off hours and it's

2031
01:23:30,960 --> 01:23:27,910
6:03 nine six seven four o3o if you

2032
01:23:35,640 --> 01:23:30,970
happen to be listening on on-air on the

2033
01:23:37,830 --> 01:23:35,650
radio so so I've heard you say the

2034
01:23:39,630 --> 01:23:37,840
symbol the this controversy about there

2035
01:23:42,090 --> 01:23:39,640
always has been controversy about the

2036
01:23:43,710 --> 01:23:42,100
symbol in you know you can see my hat

2037
01:23:49,710 --> 01:23:43,720
I'm wearing right now you're saying this

2038
01:23:57,120 --> 01:23:49,720
symbol is wrong oops I lost you Kevin

2039
01:23:59,930 --> 01:23:57,130
have you muted your mic by chance for

2040
01:24:05,040 --> 01:23:59,940
some reason we're not getting your audio

2041
01:24:10,620 --> 01:24:05,050
I mean let me take a look at let me take

2042
01:24:12,960 --> 01:24:10,630
a look at what I can see here I see your

2043
01:24:19,080 --> 01:24:12,970
lips moving but I can't hear what you're

2044
01:24:22,170 --> 01:24:19,090
saying and hang on just one moment I'm

2045
01:24:23,730 --> 01:24:22,180
gonna see if if I'm alone or go ahead

2046
01:24:29,900 --> 01:24:23,740
and talk if you would

2047
01:24:33,870 --> 01:24:32,520
hang on live listeners we'll get this

2048
01:24:36,920 --> 01:24:33,880
figured out

2049
01:24:39,980 --> 01:24:36,930
Kevin BER perhaps it's a good idea if I

2050
01:24:46,170 --> 01:24:39,990
if I hang up on you and call right back

2051
01:24:57,780 --> 01:24:46,180
I'll try that okay and let's see okay

2052
01:25:21,300 --> 01:24:57,790
hang in there everyone all right

2053
01:25:21,310 --> 01:25:31,710
okay

2054
01:26:06,209 --> 01:25:33,600
just hanging everyone we'll get this

2055
01:26:22,080 --> 01:26:20,380
almost there all right try that you're

2056
01:26:28,959 --> 01:26:22,090
back but I still can't hear you Kevin

2057
01:26:32,550 --> 01:26:28,969
you want to you want to yeah you

2058
01:26:37,780 --> 01:26:35,439
plugged it back in yeah it works

2059
01:26:40,630 --> 01:26:37,790
okay good to have you back I just wanted

2060
01:26:43,870 --> 01:26:40,640
to hear the little chime that when Skype

2061
01:26:48,390 --> 01:26:43,880
calls you okay we have another call

2062
01:26:50,620 --> 01:26:48,400
coming in so it's good timing so caller

2063
01:26:52,680 --> 01:26:50,630
welcome to the show your first name and

2064
01:26:55,540 --> 01:26:52,690
where you calling from

2065
01:26:59,200 --> 01:26:55,550
that's Sean from Burleigh I don't know

2066
01:27:01,030 --> 01:26:59,210
hi Sean how are you good how you doing

2067
01:27:03,910 --> 01:27:01,040
good good you have a you have a question

2068
01:27:06,640 --> 01:27:03,920
for our guest tonight yes they do have a

2069
01:27:08,229 --> 01:27:06,650
question for Kevin I wanted to ask him

2070
01:27:12,040 --> 01:27:08,239
do you want me to tell you it now yeah

2071
01:27:15,220 --> 01:27:12,050
yeah go ahead sure I wanted to see if he

2072
01:27:18,040 --> 01:27:15,230
has reached out with in his contacts to

2073
01:27:20,169 --> 01:27:18,050
see if anybody has any more information

2074
01:27:22,810 --> 01:27:20,179
about the metamaterials that were

2075
01:27:26,620 --> 01:27:22,820
discussed in the press release you know

2076
01:27:28,270 --> 01:27:26,630
for the tick-tack UFO you know no I'm

2077
01:27:32,350 --> 01:27:28,280
standing on investigation

2078
01:27:33,910 --> 01:27:32,360
I have not reached out I've I've

2079
01:27:37,900 --> 01:27:33,920
discussed it with some of the people I

2080
01:27:42,100 --> 01:27:37,910
know briefly and and I think the feeling

2081
01:27:46,060 --> 01:27:42,110
among most of them is that this is an

2082
01:27:51,220 --> 01:27:46,070
interesting case and it deserves more

2083
01:27:55,479 --> 01:27:51,230
research but I haven't really delved

2084
01:27:57,100 --> 01:27:55,489
into it in depth I've been just I did

2085
01:27:59,860 --> 01:27:57,110
the last two weeks that for example I've

2086
01:28:04,840 --> 01:27:59,870
just been immersed in a scientific paper

2087
01:28:07,030 --> 01:28:04,850
on the mantle UFO sighting so I I

2088
01:28:08,530 --> 01:28:07,040
haven't really done anything with that I

2089
01:28:10,479 --> 01:28:08,540
haven't gotten in depth into it and I

2090
01:28:13,000 --> 01:28:10,489
really probably should take more of a

2091
01:28:14,860 --> 01:28:13,010
look at it yeah what do you thoughts

2092
01:28:19,299 --> 01:28:14,870
thinking about that it certainly seems

2093
01:28:26,229 --> 01:28:22,540
potentially have some unique metallurgy

2094
01:28:29,500 --> 01:28:26,239
and/or molecular makeup I can't believe

2095
01:28:31,959 --> 01:28:29,510
how the press just as like drop the ball

2096
01:28:35,020 --> 01:28:31,969
like where are these meta material folks

2097
01:28:41,529 --> 01:28:35,030
you say you have them there's no photos

2098
01:28:44,620 --> 01:28:41,539
there's well we kind of argued about

2099
01:28:46,870 --> 01:28:44,630
this and I don't say you and I but in

2100
01:28:49,629 --> 01:28:46,880
general yeah would for a long time with

2101
01:28:52,000 --> 01:28:49,639
the press but but if you go back to look

2102
01:28:56,830 --> 01:28:52,010
at the Roswell case we've had any number

2103
01:28:58,450 --> 01:28:56,840
of announcements that metal had been

2104
01:29:00,100 --> 01:28:58,460
found and here's the metal and we're

2105
01:29:02,319 --> 01:29:00,110
going to present you with the scientific

2106
01:29:04,029 --> 01:29:02,329
analysis of it and it's all it's all

2107
01:29:06,549 --> 01:29:04,039
broken down it's all come out well this

2108
01:29:08,919 --> 01:29:06,559
is terrestrially based material the last

2109
01:29:11,560 --> 01:29:08,929
the last one was a big the big 50th

2110
01:29:13,719 --> 01:29:11,570
anniversary in 1997 I think it was where

2111
01:29:16,270 --> 01:29:13,729
they said you know we've got the

2112
01:29:18,189 --> 01:29:16,280
scientific papers to prove we've got a

2113
01:29:20,350 --> 01:29:18,199
piece of material that couldn't have

2114
01:29:23,709 --> 01:29:20,360
been manufactured on earth based on the

2115
01:29:28,180 --> 01:29:23,719
isotopic ratios and then you start

2116
01:29:29,739 --> 01:29:28,190
talking to metallurgist and things like

2117
01:29:32,680 --> 01:29:29,749
that and they say yeah we can manipulate

2118
01:29:35,140 --> 01:29:32,690
the isotopic ratios now we have the we

2119
01:29:38,560 --> 01:29:35,150
have the wherewithal to do that and

2120
01:29:40,359 --> 01:29:38,570
without more information and whatnot

2121
01:29:43,359 --> 01:29:40,369
then you know this is interesting but

2122
01:29:45,520 --> 01:29:43,369
it's not conclusive and I think that's

2123
01:29:47,439 --> 01:29:45,530
kind of where we are here you know it's

2124
01:29:48,790 --> 01:29:47,449
interesting but it's not conclusive and

2125
01:29:50,830 --> 01:29:48,800
we need independent study and

2126
01:29:53,080 --> 01:29:50,840
independent confirmation of this and

2127
01:29:56,500 --> 01:29:53,090
that the isotopic ratios are something

2128
01:30:00,700 --> 01:29:56,510
that couldn't easily be manipulated on

2129
01:30:02,439 --> 01:30:00,710
earth you know I you know they're the

2130
01:30:06,700 --> 01:30:02,449
big thing in 1997 was it wasn't found

2131
01:30:08,890 --> 01:30:06,710
naturally on earth but samples of that

2132
01:30:11,529 --> 01:30:08,900
kind of material did exist in the

2133
01:30:14,080 --> 01:30:11,539
laboratory so it wasn't something that

2134
01:30:16,479 --> 01:30:14,090
didn't exist on earth

2135
01:30:17,469 --> 01:30:16,489
it just didn't naturally exist on earth

2136
01:30:19,390 --> 01:30:17,479
there was something that had been

2137
01:30:21,310 --> 01:30:19,400
manufactured ninety you know that's kind

2138
01:30:24,580 --> 01:30:21,320
of where we are on this sort of thing we

2139
01:30:27,430 --> 01:30:24,590
just haven't seen all the proper

2140
01:30:28,959 --> 01:30:27,440
scientific a peer review on this sort of

2141
01:30:31,000 --> 01:30:28,969
stuff and that's really what we kind of

2142
01:30:32,709 --> 01:30:31,010
need to do and I I think the news media

2143
01:30:36,970 --> 01:30:32,719
although they covered the initial

2144
01:30:40,840 --> 01:30:36,980
Tic Tac site out of New York time you

2145
01:30:44,890 --> 01:30:40,850
know legitimate hey job right they

2146
01:30:48,160 --> 01:30:44,900
didn't just trot out a straw man and you

2147
01:30:50,410 --> 01:30:48,170
know and make it get campy but with

2148
01:30:53,649 --> 01:30:50,420
aadmi has the lawn even one of you

2149
01:30:56,229 --> 01:30:53,659
recall if the long even has ever said

2150
01:31:01,360 --> 01:30:56,239
have they done any testing on it yet

2151
01:31:05,680 --> 01:31:01,370
is there any are they've released any

2152
01:31:07,629 --> 01:31:05,690
report i haven't I haven't seen anything

2153
01:31:09,070 --> 01:31:07,639
I haven't seen anything which is not to

2154
01:31:11,200 --> 01:31:09,080
say they haven't done it it's just I

2155
01:31:13,030 --> 01:31:11,210
haven't seen anything and I don't know

2156
01:31:16,540 --> 01:31:13,040
if Mark Martin has seen anything or not

2157
01:31:19,300 --> 01:31:16,550
and it the people I discuss these sorts

2158
01:31:21,010 --> 01:31:19,310
of things with regularly I don't think

2159
01:31:23,229 --> 01:31:21,020
many of them any of them have seen

2160
01:31:25,120 --> 01:31:23,239
anything either we're all kind of

2161
01:31:27,790 --> 01:31:25,130
standing there waiting you know I

2162
01:31:29,500 --> 01:31:27,800
understand them wanting to protect the

2163
01:31:31,479 --> 01:31:29,510
proprietary nature of what they're

2164
01:31:33,129 --> 01:31:31,489
finding and that sort of thing so that

2165
01:31:35,740 --> 01:31:33,139
they can make it offer announcements at

2166
01:31:37,629 --> 01:31:35,750
the proper time but that kind of leaves

2167
01:31:40,479 --> 01:31:37,639
the rest of us hanging waiting well you

2168
01:31:42,340 --> 01:31:40,489
know it's interesting that we can't we

2169
01:31:46,660 --> 01:31:42,350
can't say yeah it's a good deal we just

2170
01:31:49,229 --> 01:31:46,670
have to say you know one when we see the

2171
01:31:52,629 --> 01:31:49,239
rest of the evidence then then we'll

2172
01:31:55,330 --> 01:31:52,639
take off I guess our skeptic hat and go

2173
01:31:57,669 --> 01:31:55,340
from there yeah I'm dying to see that

2174
01:32:00,459 --> 01:31:57,679
man I mean I appreciate the fact that

2175
01:32:02,560 --> 01:32:00,469
they managed to get this gun camera

2176
01:32:05,140 --> 01:32:02,570
footage because obviously that's that's

2177
01:32:07,149 --> 01:32:05,150
classified stuff I mean you know you're

2178
01:32:11,620 --> 01:32:07,159
not gonna for you out that stuff I mean

2179
01:32:13,120 --> 01:32:11,630
so they they got that and they got that

2180
01:32:15,250 --> 01:32:13,130
out in front of everybody but it's like

2181
01:32:18,100 --> 01:32:15,260
boy when are we gonna see some hard

2182
01:32:21,149 --> 01:32:18,110
evidence on the material did it see what

2183
01:32:24,490 --> 01:32:21,159
it would fight anybody who's done FOIA

2184
01:32:26,550 --> 01:32:24,500
knows that sometimes it just takes years

2185
01:32:30,430 --> 01:32:26,560
and years and years for this stuff to

2186
01:32:32,110 --> 01:32:30,440
filter down to us the the law used to be

2187
01:32:34,300 --> 01:32:32,120
that they had to respond within ten days

2188
01:32:38,410 --> 01:32:34,310
and the way they got away around that

2189
01:32:38,950 --> 01:32:38,420
was we have your request we are looking

2190
01:32:41,590 --> 01:32:38,960
into it

2191
01:32:43,629 --> 01:32:41,600
well they've responded in ten days but

2192
01:32:45,550 --> 01:32:43,639
they haven't told us anything and I've

2193
01:32:46,450 --> 01:32:45,560
waited years for some FOIA requests and

2194
01:32:49,930 --> 01:32:46,460
forgotten about it

2195
01:32:57,310 --> 01:32:49,940
stuff shows up in the mess oh yeah that

2196
01:32:59,080 --> 01:32:57,320
was but I mean in today's world with the

2197
01:33:03,490 --> 01:32:59,090
internet and the and the environment we

2198
01:33:05,770 --> 01:33:03,500
work in today I mentioned earlier that I

2199
01:33:10,000 --> 01:33:05,780
was doing a scientific paper on the

2200
01:33:13,840 --> 01:33:10,010
mantel sighting I was able to find the

2201
01:33:17,440 --> 01:33:13,850
weather records for January 7th 1947

2202
01:33:22,690 --> 01:33:17,450
from Godman Army Airfield from LOC born

2203
01:33:24,940 --> 01:33:22,700
Air Force Base from Wellington Ohio so

2204
01:33:26,290 --> 01:33:24,950
that I I knew what the the wind

2205
01:33:28,479 --> 01:33:26,300
conditions were where the wind was

2206
01:33:29,920 --> 01:33:28,489
coming from what the sky conditions were

2207
01:33:32,740 --> 01:33:29,930
who wasn't or not they got any

2208
01:33:34,780 --> 01:33:32,750
precipitation and I could do all that

2209
01:33:37,060 --> 01:33:34,790
sitting in my house where it used to be

2210
01:33:41,590 --> 01:33:37,070
to get that sort of information I would

2211
01:33:44,440 --> 01:33:41,600
have had to go to Noah Noah yeah and and

2212
01:33:45,760 --> 01:33:44,450
try to get the the winds aloft data

2213
01:33:48,370 --> 01:33:45,770
which is what I want it was the winds

2214
01:33:49,660 --> 01:33:48,380
aloft data for that specific date and

2215
01:33:51,700 --> 01:33:49,670
then you're waiting for that and you've

2216
01:33:53,380 --> 01:33:51,710
got to buy the microfilm and you've got

2217
01:33:55,450 --> 01:33:53,390
to have a microfilm reader and now I've

2218
01:33:57,850 --> 01:33:55,460
got at least the surface winds which

2219
01:33:59,979 --> 01:33:57,860
tell me something and the winds aloft

2220
01:34:01,060 --> 01:33:59,989
date is and all that great for 1947

2221
01:34:04,060 --> 01:34:01,070
because he only took readings up to

2222
01:34:06,640 --> 01:34:04,070
20,000 feet so if you've got an object

2223
01:34:08,229 --> 01:34:06,650
that's above 20,000 feet you know the

2224
01:34:09,820 --> 01:34:08,239
winds aloft data doesn't do you a lot of

2225
01:34:12,280 --> 01:34:09,830
good by the point simply is you know

2226
01:34:16,030 --> 01:34:12,290
we've got a way to see what comes out

2227
01:34:19,450 --> 01:34:16,040
and what sort of scientific peer review

2228
01:34:22,740 --> 01:34:19,460
has been done to validate the claims

2229
01:34:24,910 --> 01:34:22,750
that are being made yeah all right yeah

2230
01:34:27,520 --> 01:34:24,920
hey we'll have another question or you

2231
01:34:30,970 --> 01:34:27,530
got another caller no go ahead go fire

2232
01:34:33,280 --> 01:34:30,980
another question yeah my next question

2233
01:34:36,010 --> 01:34:33,290
is gonna be like sauce disclosures right

2234
01:34:40,270 --> 01:34:36,020
I mean how do you think you know Richard

2235
01:34:41,770 --> 01:34:40,280
you know Dolan makes a really good

2236
01:34:45,420 --> 01:34:41,780
remark that he thinks it won't happen

2237
01:34:50,020 --> 01:34:45,430
because there's so much technology that

2238
01:34:53,860 --> 01:34:50,030
they built off of what they found that

2239
01:34:57,220 --> 01:34:53,870
if they're all of us know that right

2240
01:34:59,620 --> 01:34:57,230
you've got the whole you know in the oil

2241
01:35:00,260 --> 01:34:59,630
you know everything is based on on the

2242
01:35:03,590 --> 01:35:00,270
petrol

2243
01:35:06,980 --> 01:35:03,600
it's like if they have anti grab and

2244
01:35:10,720 --> 01:35:06,990
they have these things it's like at some

2245
01:35:14,840 --> 01:35:10,730
point how do they disclose that and not

2246
01:35:17,270 --> 01:35:14,850
turn this into a nightmare

2247
01:35:19,370 --> 01:35:17,280
I think disclosure will come when the

2248
01:35:20,960 --> 01:35:19,380
aliens land and make their make their

2249
01:35:22,250 --> 01:35:20,970
presence known that's how we're going to

2250
01:35:24,620 --> 01:35:22,260
get disclosure I don't think the

2251
01:35:29,140 --> 01:35:24,630
government's ever going to do it yeah

2252
01:35:33,230 --> 01:35:29,150
you know I we force our hand basically

2253
01:35:35,960 --> 01:35:33,240
there's there if if what don't says is

2254
01:35:37,430 --> 01:35:35,970
accurate that's that's a big yes but if

2255
01:35:40,720 --> 01:35:37,440
I what he says accurate about the

2256
01:35:45,560 --> 01:35:40,730
technology that's based on recovered

2257
01:35:49,700 --> 01:35:45,570
alien materials yes the there is no

2258
01:35:52,160 --> 01:35:49,710
incentive to disclose know and be able

2259
01:35:55,220 --> 01:35:52,170
eyes everything that establishes it it

2260
01:35:57,380 --> 01:35:55,230
could hours it could be stable

2261
01:35:59,000 --> 01:35:57,390
everything everything it may not well we

2262
01:36:02,360 --> 01:35:59,010
talked I talked a little bit about how

2263
01:36:05,690 --> 01:36:02,370
how an invert n't introduction of a

2264
01:36:08,630 --> 01:36:05,700
technology into a society can undermine

2265
01:36:10,780 --> 01:36:08,640
the the entire society and in a way

2266
01:36:13,220 --> 01:36:10,790
without intentionally wanting to do that

2267
01:36:14,960 --> 01:36:13,230
but I think if we're going to get

2268
01:36:17,450 --> 01:36:14,970
disclosure it's going to be the aliens

2269
01:36:18,890 --> 01:36:17,460
are going to disclose we are not going

2270
01:36:20,360 --> 01:36:18,900
to be able to force the government to

2271
01:36:24,140 --> 01:36:20,370
disclose what they know if they don't

2272
01:36:26,990 --> 01:36:24,150
wish to do so and and we see that all

2273
01:36:31,550 --> 01:36:27,000
the time you know there's lawsuits and

2274
01:36:34,580 --> 01:36:31,560
FOIA requests that are still being

2275
01:36:36,920 --> 01:36:34,590
processed a stan used to have the the

2276
01:36:39,290 --> 01:36:36,930
document that that he finally got

2277
01:36:40,880 --> 01:36:39,300
through FOIA and it had like you know

2278
01:36:42,440 --> 01:36:40,890
pages and pages of everything blacked

2279
01:36:43,850 --> 01:36:42,450
out and you'd see one word or a page

2280
01:36:46,190 --> 01:36:43,860
number here and there it was just

2281
01:36:48,050 --> 01:36:46,200
absolutely worthless we finally got the

2282
01:36:49,550 --> 01:36:48,060
rest of the document and we understand

2283
01:36:51,410 --> 01:36:49,560
now it hadn't really nothing to do with

2284
01:36:54,560 --> 01:36:51,420
UFOs the reason it was classified as it

2285
01:36:56,240 --> 01:36:54,570
talked about listening posts that were

2286
01:36:59,150 --> 01:36:56,250
based in Turkey that were monitoring

2287
01:37:04,700 --> 01:36:59,160
Soviet communications so at the time it

2288
01:37:06,230 --> 01:37:04,710
was a national security item so as I say

2289
01:37:08,630 --> 01:37:06,240
I think disclosure will come when the

2290
01:37:10,400 --> 01:37:08,640
aliens decide yeah we're gonna announce

2291
01:37:11,130 --> 01:37:10,410
our presence and that that'll be the end

2292
01:37:13,230 --> 01:37:11,140
of that

2293
01:37:15,930 --> 01:37:13,240
yeah I think it's interesting that so

2294
01:37:18,210 --> 01:37:15,940
many people worry so much about the old

2295
01:37:20,700 --> 01:37:18,220
Brookings report and what religious

2296
01:37:22,710 --> 01:37:20,710
systems and the effect in our society

2297
01:37:24,960 --> 01:37:22,720
might when that if this event happens

2298
01:37:28,530 --> 01:37:24,970
and I think I think I don't think well

2299
01:37:30,150 --> 01:37:28,540
if you said it's 60 years now and and

2300
01:37:32,570 --> 01:37:30,160
where our technology and the pace we're

2301
01:37:35,820 --> 01:37:32,580
going I think the bigger question is the

2302
01:37:38,850 --> 01:37:35,830
the people who have power and how they

2303
01:37:41,400 --> 01:37:38,860
keep that power and that power and is

2304
01:37:46,380 --> 01:37:41,410
gone if you are not I grab and you'll

2305
01:37:48,270 --> 01:37:46,390
have limited energy and you have well I

2306
01:37:51,840 --> 01:37:48,280
think the thing you know I mentioned

2307
01:37:53,430 --> 01:37:51,850
earlier is is that that we have really

2308
01:37:54,630 --> 01:37:53,440
nothing to fear from the aliens I don't

2309
01:37:55,920 --> 01:37:54,640
think they're going to invade I don't

2310
01:37:58,770 --> 01:37:55,930
think it's going to be Independence Day

2311
01:38:00,840 --> 01:37:58,780
all over again in fact the my rationale

2312
01:38:03,510 --> 01:38:00,850
behind Independence Day is ridiculous

2313
01:38:07,080 --> 01:38:03,520
but but it's the introduction of the

2314
01:38:10,470 --> 01:38:07,090
technology and if you can you can see

2315
01:38:12,960 --> 01:38:10,480
just the mere introduction how it the

2316
01:38:16,080 --> 01:38:12,970
technology has changed the societies

2317
01:38:20,940 --> 01:38:16,090
prior to the Spanish arriving in the new

2318
01:38:24,000 --> 01:38:20,950
world there were no horses and we end up

2319
01:38:28,100 --> 01:38:24,010
in in the 19th century dealing with a

2320
01:38:32,610 --> 01:38:28,110
society that is built around the horse

2321
01:38:35,430 --> 01:38:32,620
you know a steel cooking pot or an iron

2322
01:38:38,040 --> 01:38:35,440
cooking pot is a much better vessel for

2323
01:38:40,700 --> 01:38:38,050
cooking than a clay pot and the

2324
01:38:43,260 --> 01:38:40,710
introduction of that sort of thing a

2325
01:38:47,010 --> 01:38:43,270
rifle a musket is a much better than a

2326
01:38:49,530 --> 01:38:47,020
bow and arrow in some circumstances but

2327
01:38:52,020 --> 01:38:49,540
you need a technology to support the

2328
01:38:55,760 --> 01:38:52,030
making of the weapon and the technology

2329
01:38:59,910 --> 01:38:55,770
to create the Gunpowder and the bullet

2330
01:39:02,190 --> 01:38:59,920
and that the Plains Indians didn't have

2331
01:39:04,920 --> 01:39:02,200
that technology so they're suddenly at

2332
01:39:07,260 --> 01:39:04,930
the mercy of the technology that owns

2333
01:39:09,360 --> 01:39:07,270
that sort of thing and so we see that

2334
01:39:11,130 --> 01:39:09,370
repeatedly throughout history how the

2335
01:39:14,070 --> 01:39:11,140
introduction of the technology is

2336
01:39:16,860 --> 01:39:14,080
radically altered societies I'm not sure

2337
01:39:19,470 --> 01:39:16,870
that the the alien showing up for

2338
01:39:22,230 --> 01:39:19,480
disclosure would radically alter our

2339
01:39:24,270 --> 01:39:22,240
society unless we have access to some of

2340
01:39:24,910 --> 01:39:24,280
that technology and they may not be

2341
01:39:28,240 --> 01:39:24,920
willing to say

2342
01:39:30,400 --> 01:39:28,250
apply that and when we argue that we

2343
01:39:33,820 --> 01:39:30,410
think we have the technology from the

2344
01:39:35,979 --> 01:39:33,830
Roswell crash for example I often I used

2345
01:39:39,220 --> 01:39:35,989
to say and Millennials won't understand

2346
01:39:42,729 --> 01:39:39,230
this that if you took a video tape and a

2347
01:39:46,150 --> 01:39:42,739
VCR to play it and a TV to display it

2348
01:39:48,070 --> 01:39:46,160
back to Merlyn the magician and said

2349
01:39:50,229 --> 01:39:48,080
duplicate this he can't do that because

2350
01:39:53,620 --> 01:39:50,239
you've got a black ribbon if you know

2351
01:39:56,080 --> 01:39:53,630
the secrets you can get pictures and

2352
01:39:58,570 --> 01:39:56,090
sound but if you know I know magnetism

2353
01:40:00,010 --> 01:39:58,580
and you don't know electricity you're

2354
01:40:02,200 --> 01:40:00,020
not going to be able to figure out how

2355
01:40:04,090 --> 01:40:02,210
that thing works and it may be that the

2356
01:40:05,979 --> 01:40:04,100
technology that was recovered was so far

2357
01:40:10,510 --> 01:40:05,989
superior we haven't figured it out yet

2358
01:40:13,330 --> 01:40:10,520
which is a distinct possibility so a

2359
01:40:16,600 --> 01:40:13,340
disclosure you know being predicated on

2360
01:40:19,209 --> 01:40:16,610
a fear of losing power may not be

2361
01:40:21,280 --> 01:40:19,219
accurate it may be a wonderful theory

2362
01:40:22,750 --> 01:40:21,290
and it may be accurate but it may not be

2363
01:40:24,910 --> 01:40:22,760
so you know we have to look at all of

2364
01:40:27,490 --> 01:40:24,920
that all right well hey thanks for the

2365
01:40:31,540 --> 01:40:27,500
call my question thanks a lot for the

2366
01:40:34,060 --> 01:40:31,550
call thanks Jake all right Kevin why

2367
01:40:36,669 --> 01:40:34,070
don't we shift gears here and go into

2368
01:40:38,290 --> 01:40:36,679
the Thomas Mantell case because you said

2369
01:40:40,660 --> 01:40:38,300
you've been researching this you wrote a

2370
01:40:43,660 --> 01:40:40,670
paper on it and all that so let's let's

2371
01:40:45,430 --> 01:40:43,670
hear first of all can again I'm going to

2372
01:40:48,760 --> 01:40:45,440
ask you to say a nutshell for the person

2373
01:40:50,979 --> 01:40:48,770
that is unfamiliar with the case of what

2374
01:40:53,080 --> 01:40:50,989
happened and unfortunately I don't have

2375
01:40:54,400 --> 01:40:53,090
a book I can point to to get get the

2376
01:40:59,740 --> 01:40:54,410
information right now this instantaneous

2377
01:41:02,430 --> 01:40:59,750
second Thomas Mantell was a army pilot

2378
01:41:07,470 --> 01:41:02,440
because it was the Army Army Air Forces

2379
01:41:09,520 --> 01:41:07,480
who actually was a very good pilot he

2380
01:41:13,750 --> 01:41:09,530
received the Distinguished Flying Cross

2381
01:41:16,300 --> 01:41:13,760
four of his come I say activities not

2382
01:41:18,459 --> 01:41:16,310
really good word for his response to

2383
01:41:20,890 --> 01:41:18,469
German anti-aircraft fire during the

2384
01:41:23,110 --> 01:41:20,900
invasion of Normandy and the lives that

2385
01:41:27,250 --> 01:41:23,120
he managed to save so I mean he was a

2386
01:41:29,680 --> 01:41:27,260
competent good pilot he is the in

2387
01:41:31,750 --> 01:41:29,690
command of a flight of four at the time

2388
01:41:35,710 --> 01:41:31,760
p-51 Mustangs they're they're moving the

2389
01:41:39,850 --> 01:41:35,720
aircraft from Georgia to Kentucky

2390
01:41:41,710 --> 01:41:39,860
and he is called by the Godman Army

2391
01:41:44,680 --> 01:41:41,720
Airfield tower and say can you check out

2392
01:41:46,300 --> 01:41:44,690
this object that we see and he he and

2393
01:41:49,000 --> 01:41:46,310
his flight turned toward it one guy

2394
01:41:51,640 --> 01:41:49,010
broke off to go to their their base

2395
01:41:53,980 --> 01:41:51,650
because he didn't have enough fuel to to

2396
01:41:55,900 --> 01:41:53,990
engage in an intercept Mantell and two

2397
01:41:58,600 --> 01:41:55,910
others went up they continued climbing

2398
01:42:01,090 --> 01:41:58,610
they climbed above 14,000 feet Mantell

2399
01:42:04,150 --> 01:42:01,100
continued the climb the evidence

2400
01:42:06,250 --> 01:42:04,160
suggests he got up to 22,000 feet but he

2401
01:42:09,010 --> 01:42:06,260
around 20,000 feet he told the guys I'm

2402
01:42:10,630 --> 01:42:09,020
gonna go to 25,000 feet and if I can't

2403
01:42:11,710 --> 01:42:10,640
get any closer then I'm gonna break off

2404
01:42:15,370 --> 01:42:11,720
the intercept the other two guys turned

2405
01:42:19,060 --> 01:42:15,380
back man tells a plane crashed some

2406
01:42:21,310 --> 01:42:19,070
thirty minutes later it's clear that he

2407
01:42:22,480 --> 01:42:21,320
he did not have oxygen equipment on

2408
01:42:24,130 --> 01:42:22,490
board while there was equipment

2409
01:42:27,610 --> 01:42:24,140
installed it wasn't properly charged he

2410
01:42:32,110 --> 01:42:27,620
didn't have his oxygen mask we now

2411
01:42:34,180 --> 01:42:32,120
understand epoxy ax or hypoxia epoxy is

2412
01:42:37,660 --> 01:42:34,190
a complete lack of oxygen blood hypoxia

2413
01:42:40,120 --> 01:42:37,670
is diminishing amounts of blood oxygen

2414
01:42:43,690 --> 01:42:40,130
blood and how quickly the hypoxia can

2415
01:42:44,920 --> 01:42:43,700
turn in turn deadly if you're at 25,000

2416
01:42:46,600 --> 01:42:44,930
feet you have like three minutes of

2417
01:42:49,690 --> 01:42:46,610
useful consciousness I think it is

2418
01:42:51,490 --> 01:42:49,700
according to the studies that have been

2419
01:42:53,890 --> 01:42:51,500
done so he you know he didn't have

2420
01:42:55,540 --> 01:42:53,900
enough time to get to 25,000 feet in

2421
01:42:57,430 --> 01:42:55,550
circle for 10 minutes before he would

2422
01:42:59,200 --> 01:42:57,440
have passed out from a lack of oxygen in

2423
01:43:02,740 --> 01:42:59,210
his blood the aircraft being trained

2424
01:43:05,200 --> 01:43:02,750
trimmed to climb continued climbing to

2425
01:43:06,460 --> 01:43:05,210
around 30,000 feet where it sort of

2426
01:43:08,050 --> 01:43:06,470
leveled off and then the torque of the

2427
01:43:10,570 --> 01:43:08,060
engine pulled it over into a power dive

2428
01:43:12,340 --> 01:43:10,580
in the aircraft broke up around you know

2429
01:43:13,900 --> 01:43:12,350
10 to 20,000 feet the aircraft broke up

2430
01:43:17,320 --> 01:43:13,910
to the external forces of this power

2431
01:43:22,390 --> 01:43:17,330
dive in Mantell was killed so of course

2432
01:43:24,100 --> 01:43:22,400
it is what did he see this the Air Force

2433
01:43:25,720 --> 01:43:24,110
said originally well he was chasing the

2434
01:43:27,700 --> 01:43:25,730
planet Venus which is not a very good

2435
01:43:31,360 --> 01:43:27,710
explanation Venus was in the part of the

2436
01:43:33,040 --> 01:43:31,370
sky where they thought the object was

2437
01:43:34,450 --> 01:43:33,050
but that's just merely a coincidence and

2438
01:43:37,540 --> 01:43:34,460
the Air Force said well you know it's

2439
01:43:39,040 --> 01:43:37,550
really Venus in a balloon then it was

2440
01:43:42,760 --> 01:43:39,050
Venus and two weather balloons and

2441
01:43:45,310 --> 01:43:42,770
eventually they decided our Isis is a

2442
01:43:47,919 --> 01:43:45,320
and repelled who was a chief of posi

2443
01:43:50,260 --> 01:43:47,929
Bluebook at the time in 1952

2444
01:43:52,270 --> 01:43:50,270
we stutters studying the case again said

2445
01:43:53,500 --> 01:43:52,280
well it was a skyhook balloon and he

2446
01:43:57,450 --> 01:43:53,510
thought it had been launched from

2447
01:43:59,919 --> 01:43:57,460
Clinton County Air Force Base in Ohio

2448
01:44:02,709 --> 01:43:59,929
but they could find no records of that

2449
01:44:05,500 --> 01:44:02,719
later on that we found it hit the

2450
01:44:08,880 --> 01:44:05,510
microphone sorry about that people found

2451
01:44:11,050 --> 01:44:08,890
the skyhook was lodged from Minnesota

2452
01:44:12,610 --> 01:44:11,060
and would have been in the area at the

2453
01:44:13,840 --> 01:44:12,620
time so the question is is that what

2454
01:44:16,090 --> 01:44:13,850
what he chased the balloon would have

2455
01:44:19,030 --> 01:44:16,100
been it's like 80 thousand feet and

2456
01:44:22,479 --> 01:44:19,040
Mantell was flying around at 20,000 feet

2457
01:44:25,870 --> 01:44:22,489
so the balloon was 60,000 feet what 11

2458
01:44:27,520 --> 01:44:25,880
miles above him at the time that sort of

2459
01:44:30,899 --> 01:44:27,530
thing so it's been a big controversy

2460
01:44:35,649 --> 01:44:30,909
about what he chased view that the

2461
01:44:37,510 --> 01:44:35,659
accident was caused by his violation of

2462
01:44:41,050 --> 01:44:37,520
regulations which is the only way to say

2463
01:44:44,040 --> 01:44:41,060
that and probably well passing out to

2464
01:44:48,550 --> 01:44:44,050
hypoxia if you remember pain jennings

2465
01:44:52,660 --> 01:44:48,560
Learjet they lost contact with it I

2466
01:44:54,160 --> 01:44:52,670
think there was a window broke or

2467
01:44:56,560 --> 01:44:54,170
something like that in the aircraft and

2468
01:44:58,240 --> 01:44:56,570
they lost the oxygen and the the the

2469
01:45:01,330 --> 01:44:58,250
crew didn't even have time to respond to

2470
01:45:03,959 --> 01:45:01,340
that at 39,000 feet you just lose

2471
01:45:06,640 --> 01:45:03,969
consciousness almost instantaneously

2472
01:45:08,130 --> 01:45:06,650
when that sort of thing happens so it's

2473
01:45:14,830 --> 01:45:08,140
clear that's the cause of the accident

2474
01:45:17,320 --> 01:45:14,840
is man tells succumbing to hypoxia Wow

2475
01:45:19,180 --> 01:45:17,330
and he either died from hypoxia or he

2476
01:45:22,149 --> 01:45:19,190
died in the crash it really makes little

2477
01:45:23,919 --> 01:45:22,159
difference to man tell okay so the

2478
01:45:26,890 --> 01:45:23,929
question is you know what did he see and

2479
01:45:29,080 --> 01:45:26,900
I think based on the research and I'm

2480
01:45:30,939 --> 01:45:29,090
gonna take heat from a number of my

2481
01:45:33,250 --> 01:45:30,949
friends on this one I think he was

2482
01:45:34,660 --> 01:45:33,260
chasing a skyhook balloon which was in

2483
01:45:37,570 --> 01:45:34,670
the area and the question is well could

2484
01:45:39,610 --> 01:45:37,580
they have seen it was it was it large

2485
01:45:41,740 --> 01:45:39,620
enough for them to see at that altitude

2486
01:45:44,260 --> 01:45:41,750
from the distance they supposedly saw it

2487
01:45:46,450 --> 01:45:44,270
and every time I turned around and

2488
01:45:49,830 --> 01:45:46,460
working the paper I found something else

2489
01:45:52,180 --> 01:45:49,840
that did impacted on this I plotted the

2490
01:45:53,290 --> 01:45:52,190
sightings and the times because those

2491
01:45:55,660 --> 01:45:53,300
are available in the project Bluebook

2492
01:45:58,750 --> 01:45:55,670
files in other places and there is I

2493
01:46:00,580 --> 01:45:58,760
think the reason Rubel thought it came

2494
01:46:01,810 --> 01:46:00,590
from Clinton County is if you take a

2495
01:46:05,380 --> 01:46:01,820
look at the size

2496
01:46:08,350 --> 01:46:05,390
in Central and Eastern Kentucky it's

2497
01:46:10,480 --> 01:46:08,360
almost a straight line from what is it

2498
01:46:16,150 --> 01:46:10,490
Maysville to Lexington to man's Ville

2499
01:46:18,820 --> 01:46:16,160
and back up to Willington Ohio it's

2500
01:46:20,650 --> 01:46:18,830
almost a straight line it looks like

2501
01:46:22,660 --> 01:46:20,660
something flying in a straight line but

2502
01:46:25,120 --> 01:46:22,670
everything that you read about man tell

2503
01:46:26,950 --> 01:46:25,130
the tower Clinton the Godman tower and

2504
01:46:29,640 --> 01:46:26,960
everything's looking to the southwest so

2505
01:46:32,380 --> 01:46:29,650
those those sightings are irrelevant

2506
01:46:35,560 --> 01:46:32,390
they got their information from the

2507
01:46:38,580 --> 01:46:35,570
police in Madisonville which is in South

2508
01:46:41,290 --> 01:46:38,590
Western Kentucky and Elizabethtown and

2509
01:46:42,880 --> 01:46:41,300
other places like that so when the tower

2510
01:46:44,950 --> 01:46:42,890
began looking for they're looking for a

2511
01:46:47,350 --> 01:46:44,960
specific thing in that specific area and

2512
01:46:53,550 --> 01:46:47,360
they're using both binoculars and they

2513
01:46:56,920 --> 01:46:55,630
interview with one of the guys in the

2514
01:46:58,570 --> 01:46:56,930
tower and he said they had this

2515
01:47:01,480 --> 01:46:58,580
jury-rigged thing in the tower with a

2516
01:47:03,730 --> 01:47:01,490
broomstick and a piece of paper on take

2517
01:47:05,470 --> 01:47:03,740
to the window because it was almost

2518
01:47:07,120 --> 01:47:05,480
impossible to see the object cause of

2519
01:47:08,830 --> 01:47:07,130
the distance and but when they brought

2520
01:47:10,300 --> 01:47:08,840
binoculars on it if you if you knew

2521
01:47:11,140 --> 01:47:10,310
where to look you could spot it but if

2522
01:47:12,580 --> 01:47:11,150
you didn't know where to look you'd

2523
01:47:14,500 --> 01:47:12,590
never have never have seen it and they

2524
01:47:18,160 --> 01:47:14,510
had found it with their binoculars and

2525
01:47:19,570 --> 01:47:18,170
then put up this jury-rigged thing in

2526
01:47:20,950 --> 01:47:19,580
the tower that said oh well that's where

2527
01:47:23,530 --> 01:47:20,960
these guys look down there and then

2528
01:47:25,780 --> 01:47:23,540
that's where we are so I think I think

2529
01:47:27,520 --> 01:47:25,790
the man tell k-6 is you know the the

2530
01:47:29,020 --> 01:47:27,530
two-prong investigation the accident

2531
01:47:31,240 --> 01:47:29,030
investigation I think that's explained

2532
01:47:33,070 --> 01:47:31,250
and I think I think the UFO sighting is

2533
01:47:35,530 --> 01:47:33,080
now explained but it's one of the other

2534
01:47:36,850 --> 01:47:35,540
classics of the the UFO field right

2535
01:47:39,340 --> 01:47:36,860
right

2536
01:47:42,280 --> 01:47:39,350
we have we have Ryan been waiting

2537
01:47:50,070 --> 01:47:42,290
patiently online to talk Ryan how you

2538
01:47:56,380 --> 01:47:54,100
wanted to ask him he had mentioned

2539
01:47:59,320 --> 01:47:56,390
earlier in the broadcast and I

2540
01:48:01,690 --> 01:47:59,330
participate in his vlog sometimes he had

2541
01:48:04,870 --> 01:48:01,700
mentioned on his blog that there is the

2542
01:48:07,770 --> 01:48:04,880
new revelation about some of Jesse

2543
01:48:09,910 --> 01:48:07,780
Marcel documents may be coming out is

2544
01:48:11,560 --> 01:48:09,920
this Marcel the third may have

2545
01:48:13,960 --> 01:48:11,570
discovered and all this kind of stuff I

2546
01:48:15,670 --> 01:48:13,970
just wanted to ask and a big point of

2547
01:48:18,310 --> 01:48:15,680
contention with Roswell

2548
01:48:22,240 --> 01:48:18,320
always been whether Jesse Marcel would

2549
01:48:24,580 --> 01:48:22,250
have I've been able to identify would

2550
01:48:27,490 --> 01:48:24,590
have understood that he's looking at a

2551
01:48:30,010 --> 01:48:27,500
weather balloon or a ray wind target as

2552
01:48:32,910 --> 01:48:30,020
opposed to something extraordinary back

2553
01:48:35,290 --> 01:48:32,920
in 1947 some people had looked at as

2554
01:48:37,690 --> 01:48:35,300
military record and said there's there's

2555
01:48:40,000 --> 01:48:37,700
nothing there that indicates he was ever

2556
01:48:42,580 --> 01:48:40,010
trained and identifying this sort of

2557
01:48:44,050 --> 01:48:42,590
thing other people has said it's

2558
01:48:46,660 --> 01:48:44,060
ridiculous that an intelligence officer

2559
01:48:48,370 --> 01:48:46,670
wouldn't be able to and wanted to tap

2560
01:48:51,790 --> 01:48:48,380
into your knowledge as an ex-military

2561
01:48:54,580 --> 01:48:51,800
man what do you think first of all if we

2562
01:48:56,790 --> 01:48:54,590
believe Sheridan Cavitt who was

2563
01:48:59,020 --> 01:48:56,800
allegedly on the scene with Jesse Marcel

2564
01:49:01,720 --> 01:48:59,030
Cavett said when he first saw it he knew

2565
01:49:03,460 --> 01:49:01,730
it was a weather balloon well why didn't

2566
01:49:05,110 --> 01:49:03,470
he communicate this rather important

2567
01:49:08,470 --> 01:49:05,120
piece of intelligence Jesse Marcel yes

2568
01:49:10,510 --> 01:49:08,480
that's a weather balloon you know that's

2569
01:49:12,820 --> 01:49:10,520
the first thing the second thing is

2570
01:49:14,320 --> 01:49:12,830
Jesse Marcel participated in operation

2571
01:49:16,180 --> 01:49:14,330
crossroads that was the testing the

2572
01:49:18,460 --> 01:49:16,190
atomic bombs and the Bikini Atoll area I

2573
01:49:20,620 --> 01:49:18,470
believe part of the equipment they

2574
01:49:23,200 --> 01:49:20,630
carried with them were raehwan targets

2575
01:49:26,650 --> 01:49:23,210
and weather balloons so he would have

2576
01:49:28,900 --> 01:49:26,660
known that sort of thing as well he also

2577
01:49:31,570 --> 01:49:28,910
apparently attended a radar school and

2578
01:49:33,310 --> 01:49:31,580
part of that would have involved raehwan

2579
01:49:34,720 --> 01:49:33,320
targets and that sort of thing so it's

2580
01:49:36,340 --> 01:49:34,730
clear that that he would have been

2581
01:49:38,920 --> 01:49:36,350
exposed to that but if you're looking at

2582
01:49:40,870 --> 01:49:38,930
an array when targets basically what an

2583
01:49:42,880 --> 01:49:40,880
aluminum foil I think it's got a cloth

2584
01:49:46,630 --> 01:49:42,890
backing to it but basically an aluminum

2585
01:49:48,130 --> 01:49:46,640
foil thing this wouldn't be that all

2586
01:49:49,660 --> 01:49:48,140
extraordinary there's no reason for it

2587
01:49:51,850 --> 01:49:49,670
to have been torn up and spread over

2588
01:49:55,120 --> 01:49:51,860
what I think he said three-quarters of a

2589
01:49:56,740 --> 01:49:55,130
mile that sort of thing it just it just

2590
01:49:58,840 --> 01:49:56,750
doesn't make sense so I know the the

2591
01:50:00,790 --> 01:49:58,850
idea that he was fooled by a weather

2592
01:50:04,570 --> 01:50:00,800
balloon in a ring when target a farmer

2593
01:50:06,250 --> 01:50:04,580
in Ohio Circleville Ohio founder raehwan

2594
01:50:08,410 --> 01:50:06,260
target and weather balloon on his rant

2595
01:50:09,700 --> 01:50:08,420
are on his farm and he took it to the

2596
01:50:10,780 --> 01:50:09,710
sheriff and says you know here's one of

2597
01:50:12,550 --> 01:50:10,790
these weather balloon things mites

2598
01:50:13,900 --> 01:50:12,560
explain some of the UFO sightings or

2599
01:50:16,510 --> 01:50:13,910
some of the flying saucer sightings I

2600
01:50:18,400 --> 01:50:16,520
guess so I mean a farmer in Ohio was

2601
01:50:20,140 --> 01:50:18,410
able to identify the raehwan target the

2602
01:50:22,100 --> 01:50:20,150
weather bloom but Jesse Marcel could not

2603
01:50:25,220 --> 01:50:22,110
sue preposterous idea

2604
01:50:26,660 --> 01:50:25,230
even if it was project mogul mogul was

2605
01:50:28,759 --> 01:50:26,670
basically weather balloons and raehwan

2606
01:50:30,169 --> 01:50:28,769
targets so even if there was a number of

2607
01:50:32,319 --> 01:50:30,179
them there there was nothing that that

2608
01:50:34,700 --> 01:50:32,329
he shouldn't have been able to identify

2609
01:50:38,000 --> 01:50:34,710
they they launched weather balloons from

2610
01:50:39,770 --> 01:50:38,010
the Roswell Army Airfield I think four

2611
01:50:41,330 --> 01:50:39,780
times was it four times or six times

2612
01:50:43,040 --> 01:50:41,340
every four hours every four hours I

2613
01:50:45,290 --> 01:50:43,050
think it was from the weather station

2614
01:50:46,549 --> 01:50:45,300
there to get the winds aloft do you know

2615
01:50:48,830 --> 01:50:46,559
one of the places they got we were

2616
01:50:50,720 --> 01:50:48,840
gathering winds aloft date in 1947 so

2617
01:50:51,589 --> 01:50:50,730
the idea that he was fooled by a raehwan

2618
01:50:54,319 --> 01:50:51,599
target and weather balloon is

2619
01:50:55,729 --> 01:50:54,329
preposterous well thanks for that hey

2620
01:51:02,209 --> 01:50:55,739
thanks for the call Ryan we're actually

2621
01:51:03,250 --> 01:51:02,219
at the end of the show so yeah so all

2622
01:51:05,600 --> 01:51:03,260
right take care

2623
01:51:07,939 --> 01:51:05,610
Kevin it's always a pleasure every

2624
01:51:09,470 --> 01:51:07,949
single time and I feel like we could

2625
01:51:14,239 --> 01:51:09,480
talk another four hours I know you have

2626
01:51:16,339 --> 01:51:14,249
dinner waiting for you yeah yeah

2627
01:51:17,750 --> 01:51:16,349
excellent so thanks so much really it's

2628
01:51:18,140 --> 01:51:17,760
been a real pleasure I really appreciate

2629
01:51:23,149 --> 01:51:18,150
it

2630
01:51:24,770 --> 01:51:23,159
well I'm give me a shout I know you

2631
01:51:26,899 --> 01:51:24,780
reached out to me that was really nice

2632
01:51:30,770 --> 01:51:26,909
enough I had a guest canceled that was

2633
01:51:32,270 --> 01:51:30,780
but I guess I had it covered ahead of

2634
01:51:33,890 --> 01:51:32,280
that but I appreciate that very much and

2635
01:51:35,779 --> 01:51:33,900
we'll talk to you soon Kevin you take

2636
01:51:38,739 --> 01:51:35,789
care okay you too thank you much all

2637
01:51:40,939 --> 01:51:38,749
right thanks ok everyone so that's it

2638
01:51:44,120 --> 01:51:40,949
for the show remember we'll be back next

2639
01:51:50,509 --> 01:51:44,130
week with Chris Cogswell he should be a

2640
01:51:53,959 --> 01:51:50,519
great guest and we have just a couple

2641
01:51:57,830 --> 01:51:53,969
things to go over real quickly and that

2642
01:52:02,149 --> 01:51:57,840
is if you would like to listen to the

2643
01:52:05,359 --> 01:52:02,159
show live and you're catching this as a

2644
01:52:09,560 --> 01:52:05,369
podcast now or if you just happened on

2645
01:52:11,060 --> 01:52:09,570
this YouTube video or whatever you can

2646
01:52:14,239 --> 01:52:11,070
do a couple of different things one you

2647
01:52:17,180 --> 01:52:14,249
can go to my website podcast UFO calm

2648
01:52:18,529 --> 01:52:17,190
and over on the right hand side you'll

2649
01:52:20,720 --> 01:52:18,539
see that there is a mailing list you

2650
01:52:22,279 --> 01:52:20,730
just simply enter your mailing I mean

2651
01:52:23,390 --> 01:52:22,289
I'm sorry your email address into that

2652
01:52:25,580 --> 01:52:23,400
and push enter

2653
01:52:27,589 --> 01:52:25,590
basically that's that's how it works

2654
01:52:29,330 --> 01:52:27,599
you'll get the newsletter once a week of

2655
01:52:30,830 --> 01:52:29,340
what we have going on so we have

2656
01:52:33,229 --> 01:52:30,840
announcement for instance when - I'm at

2657
01:52:34,520 --> 01:52:33,239
the MUFON symposium and I know when I'm

2658
01:52:36,830 --> 01:52:34,530
going to set the show

2659
01:52:39,420 --> 01:52:36,840
you will actually get that announcement

2660
01:52:40,970 --> 01:52:39,430
or any other upcoming guests that we

2661
01:52:44,550 --> 01:52:40,980
have or any other important

2662
01:52:46,800 --> 01:52:44,560
announcements so also you can subscribe

2663
01:52:50,400 --> 01:52:46,810
to the YouTube channel and you can catch

2664
01:52:52,140 --> 01:52:50,410
what's going on there I think I do

2665
01:52:56,040 --> 01:52:52,150
believe you get notices of when live

2666
01:52:57,810 --> 01:52:56,050
shows are coming up I don't know for

2667
01:53:02,550 --> 01:52:57,820
sure but some people have told me that's

2668
01:53:03,900 --> 01:53:02,560
how that works and so that is about it I

2669
01:53:06,050 --> 01:53:03,910
want to thank some people that helped

2670
01:53:08,640 --> 01:53:06,060
out first of all our guests of course

2671
01:53:10,500 --> 01:53:08,650
and Kevin Randall and Alejandro Rojas

2672
01:53:13,260 --> 01:53:10,510
for helping out with the UFO updates we

2673
01:53:15,180 --> 01:53:13,270
didn't talk too much about updates of

2674
01:53:17,729 --> 01:53:15,190
UFOs but other things always good to

2675
01:53:19,700 --> 01:53:17,739
have Alejandro on Evan I want to thank

2676
01:53:22,260 --> 01:53:19,710
him for working in the background and

2677
01:53:25,620 --> 01:53:22,270
Peggy for managing the Facebook page

2678
01:53:27,420 --> 01:53:25,630
race over at kgr a radio and so that's